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How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

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Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#81

Post by caf »

ender7 wrote: post #24
redthrowaway wrote: post #3

The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other than his idea and his impetus is naive…

What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry…

This idea is eerily similar to the way that the new North Korean leader Kim Jung Un wasn't able to countermand the order to perform a long range rocket test, because the order was given by his late father Kim Jong Il.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#82

Post by caf »

jrockway wrote: post #27
redthrowaway wrote: post #3

The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other than his idea and his impetus is naive…

According to the Appleistas, it still counts as "thermonuclear war" if you detonate the nukes over your own cities. Keep calm and carry on! (Insert joke about the 3D maps.)

Funnily enough, I was reading just the other day about Edward Teller. One of the weapons on his drawing board was a 10 gigaton bomb, for which the delivery method was "BACKYARD" - as in, it's much too heavy to move it anywhere, so it's employed by blowing it up in your own backyard.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#83

Post by Gustomaximus »

Matsta wrote: post #20

Ahh yes, so we are all really going to ditch Facebook and Twitter for Google+ soon? I kinda doubt it "Although Google+ may have as little as 10% of the active users of Facebook, it’s growing faster than Facebook ever did. And more importantly, Google+ has a vastly superior user experience to Facebook and has a much brighter longterm future, in my opinion."

I would agree with that statement. I look at Chrome for desktop and the almost linear month on month growth for 2 years to become the most used browser, IMO largely because they have placement on Youtube/Google/Gmail pages (and of course a decent product). This growth is incredible when they don't have significant pre-installation and unsurprisingly shows the power of having web presence.

Here is Chromes forward march: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-201001-201208

But back to G+, over the short term (1 year) I see G+ getting some traction in the professional environmental, much likes Facebook's college crowd. Longer term (3 years) Google will use their massive presence across the search home page, Youtube, Android, Maps, Gmail and probably books/movies/music to sign people up bit by bit until they reach a critical mass where you may as well use G+ rather than Facebook from a reach perspective. Then you have the tipping point where a few features make the choice difference. And I back Google to innovate killer features and build brand preference over Facebook.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#84

Post by andrewljohnson »

redthrowaway wrote: post #3

The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other than his idea and his impetus is naive…

Maps-gate, antenna-gate, BS-gate. Every time Apple ships an iDevice, the internet and tech press spin some yarn about a defect in the device, how it isn't a big enough improvement, how it's only smaller and thinner, how it's copying Android.

And what happens... every, single, time? The public buys them in droves, and adores them to the last man.

Apple Maps is both a strong technical flourish, and it's a bold strategy for overtaking the leaders by bolstering OpenStreetMap, and I think that end game is going to work.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#85

Post by pilif »

To be fair though: we could just as well be seeing the results of a contract expiring which to renew Google might have asked for unreasonable terms.

Think of it: the iPhone came out 5 years ago and 5 years is a conceivable contract term, just as it was 5 years for the YouTube app.

When the maps app was initially put on the phone, Google maps was more or less free. Nowadays it is very expensive (a bit better now, but still too expensive for many services out there). Surely not too expensive for Apple, but still.

The best way for apple would probably have been to extend the contract for another year or two to improve their maps service which they are clearly working on for two to three years already.

But maybe it is Google that didn't want that. Maybe they outright refused, wanted to only do it at 10 times the original price for another 5 years or longer, or they might have wanted a patent agreement to stop the witch hunt against android. We just don't know, but the reason for crappy maps could just as well have been Google.

Or as I use to say: why can't they just get along? It would be so much better for the consumer they both seem to put first in their pitches.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#86

Post by DesaiAshu »

andreyf wrote: post #17
arrrg wrote: post #2

First, to get it out of the way: People are very right in mocking Apple. They deserve every bit of that. What they delivered with their Maps app is embarrassing. I do not want to defend that. The problem, however, is that this article assumes something to be unequivocally true even though we do not know whether it is: That Apple decided to build their own maps in order to hurt Google. It takes two to play. Both Apple…

the old Maps app was perpetually stuck in 2007 while Android phones gained 3D views and (much more important) vector maps and turn by turn navigation I don't need or care about 3D view or vector maps or turn-by-turn navigation (although I see how the last one could be useful for a lot of users). I, like most city dwellers, need directions that take public transit into account. I can't believe Apple released an "upgra…

Both turn-by-turn and transit directions are available as 3rd party apps. Transit directions apps are free while turn-by-turn are fairly expensive (though I haven't checked recently). Despite having an iPhone I still have a GPS in my car, and since I started using iOS 6 in June turn-by-turn has become a staple of what I use the iPhone for. Apple is taking a short term hit in order to serve users better in the long term. Though maybe it would have been wiser for them to wait a year before switching. I expect this problem will be solved in 6 months but time will tell.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#88

Post by Magenta »

andreyf wrote: post #17
arrrg wrote: post #2

First, to get it out of the way: People are very right in mocking Apple. They deserve every bit of that. What they delivered with their Maps app is embarrassing. I do not want to defend that. The problem, however, is that this article assumes something to be unequivocally true even though we do not know whether it is: That Apple decided to build their own maps in order to hurt Google. It takes two to play. Both Apple…

the old Maps app was perpetually stuck in 2007 while Android phones gained 3D views and (much more important) vector maps and turn by turn navigation I don't need or care about 3D view or vector maps or turn-by-turn navigation (although I see how the last one could be useful for a lot of users). I, like most city dwellers, need directions that take public transit into account. I can't believe Apple released an "upgra…

Apple customers use public transport?

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#89

Post by christensen_emc »

jfoutz wrote: post #60
enraged_camel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if he had lived for another five years, he would have made peace with Google like he did with Microsoft.

If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations…

Didn't Jobs want Apple to work on a car next?
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