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How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

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Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#71

Post by Corrado »

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the article. My take on it is that Apple is, again, losing it's way and the article points out some specific examples. Things like maps and Facebook integration are just the icing on the cake. I just can't shake the feeling that Apple doesn't care about the customer anymore.

With every new OS release Apple has moved toward homogenization of their product line. Soon there will be no difference between what's on your desktop and in your pocket, and I think this is a bad thing. Apple's main strength has always been its ability to attract "makers", however with this new direction I see them turning their back on developers, artists, writers, etc. Maybe that's a valid market and a good long term vision and if so then good for them.

However, for the first time in years I am looking for other alternatives for my future computing devices. And that makes me sad. I've really, really enjoyed (most of) their products over the last 20 years, but I guess like any other company, Apple has run out of steam.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#72

Post by SoftwareMaven »

josephcooney wrote: post #58
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #28

How do we know this is Apple trying to hurt Google? How do we know this isn't Google trying to hurt Apple? The fact that this sucks so bad for Apple's users and seems to be a net positive for Google would seem to indicate it is likely to be otherwise. The fact that Apple extolled the virtues of its map is immaterial. Of course they are going to do that.

How does google force Apple to ship broken software again? I've forgotten....

Who provided the data for the "Maps" app prior to iOS 6 again? I've forgotten...

An alternative would be no maps, but as bad as the new maps app is, it is clearly better than no maps.

Another option might be licensing somebody else's maps, but we don't know that they didn't try and fail to find somebody willing or find some somebody willing but with, on balance, no better data than Apple currently has (or slightly better but at the cost of another long-term deal that keeps them from controlling this critical part of their platform).

Maybe Apple really did do this out of hubris alone, but, as arrogant as they are, I find that explanation to be the one that requires the most suspension of disbelief.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#73

Post by eshvk »

ef4 wrote: post #18

The argument that Apple needs their own map for strategic reasons is fine, but it doesn't explain why they needed to ship it before it was any good. I can imagine three explanations: (1) They think they need to start gathering user-generated map content. "Add your business to Apple Maps if you want iPhone users to find it." (2) An internal struggle at Apple. If the supporters of the maps project thought it was at ris…

> (3) They didn't realize quite how bad it was. Just because customers started finding hilarious problems on days one doesn't mean they're trivially easy to find. With enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.

As a digression: I wonder if the fact that Apple is located in Palo Alto has anything to do with the lack of support for public transportation in Maps? Typically the south bay has a significantly less emphasis on public transport (excepting Caltrain and VTA) when compared to San Francisco. It would certainly be interesting to compare UX experiences of apple devs/testers who commute from SF to Palo Alto vs those who lived close by.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#74

Post by yojimbo311 »

ef4 wrote: post #18

The argument that Apple needs their own map for strategic reasons is fine, but it doesn't explain why they needed to ship it before it was any good. I can imagine three explanations: (1) They think they need to start gathering user-generated map content. "Add your business to Apple Maps if you want iPhone users to find it." (2) An internal struggle at Apple. If the supporters of the maps project thought it was at ris…

1) In some ways they already do this by collating anonymized crowdsourced data (ex. the overblown debacle over the location cache and the subsequent discovery that they were crowdsourcing traffic data).

2) To my knowledge, this just doesn't happen at Apple for high profile launches like iOS, iPhone, iPad etc. While there are always going to be egos at play in any corporation, the executive team is very solid at Apple and struggles like that just don't get far. Apple demonstrated over and over again that they have no problem killing hardware and software that they feel they must for the sake of progress, or whatever, and you can bet that there's always a team with something at stake when they do that.

3) Given the thoroughness of focus on iOS at Apple over the last 5 years, and maps being a rather major change for a key functionality for iPhones, and any smartphone now really, this seems impossible. What I'm not clear on is why Apple didn't expressly announce the feature as a work in progress, or "beta", that is at the point that it requires real world usage and feedback to bring it up to the standards of, what are now, significantly more mature products.

The Maps app in iOS5 really hasn't changed much since it's launch with the first iPhone while Android, etc. have been able to add features to theirs. My money is on licensing restrictions being the primary culprit behind this and given that Apple's license with Google was up this year, it just seems far too much of a stretch, for the sake of finding any kind of fault in Apple's diamond polished veneer, to assume that Apple had any other intention than wanting to improve the utility of a key mobile computing feature they were otherwise not allowed to do, or were not able to come to agreeable terms with Google when talking about renewing their license. It's unfortunate that it's so significantly lacking in accuracy, but I'm not entirely sure there was much they could do about that before launch beyond removing Maps entirely?

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#75

Post by SoftwareMaven »

J-H wrote: post #34
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is they may have had no choice . Yes, it sucks, but if they don't have a contract, their choices are very limited.

Then why didn't they move to OSM or Bing Maps?

Maybe they felt that the data wasn't sufficiently better and that they wouldn't have enough control to make that data better over time. Maybe Bing is profited from licensing the data in a way that would accomplish what Apple wants to accomplish (like the rumored ban on turn-by-turn that caused Google to drop telenav in favor of creating their own dataset).

There are few times that I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in Cupertino. This is one time I wish I could have. The discussions and reasoning that went into this decision must have been fascinating because there is no way Apple was thinking, "Maybe they just won't notice". There were undoubtably a lot of tactical and strategic decisions that went into what we see, and being party to that would have given a lot of insight into Apple as a company.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#76

Post by SoftwareMaven »

jfoutz wrote: post #60
enraged_camel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if he had lived for another five years, he would have made peace with Google like he did with Microsoft.

If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations…

Apple is an incredibly secretive company. There were no indications the iPhone and iPad were on their way, either. Apple could have a dozen more products like that behind closed doors and we'd never know (until they start planting vague, conflicting rumors 6 months before release to start the anticipation media storm).

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#77

Post by SoftwareMaven »

001sky wrote: post #50
vegardx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't realize just how big Samsung is. If you're making hardware, it's not like you can just drop a partner like Samsung because of legal troubles in another department. They are huge, and it's hard to replace them over night.

Samsung corporate is $100bn+ and the mobile is only ~$20bn, so this is a valid point. On the bigger issue here, though, it does seem if apple is being a bit emotional in the whole thing. They are the most profitable/successful company in the world right now. $700bn is insane market cap, its 2-3x GE under Jack welch. They should be 100% focused on kicking ass with product. Buy some map companies or whatever. Spend $1-…

That same emotion drives passion that results in amazing products. I'm not sure you can separate the two.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#79

Post by 001sky »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #77
001sky wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung corporate is $100bn+ and the mobile is only ~$20bn, so this is a valid point. On the bigger issue here, though, it does seem if apple is being a bit emotional in the whole thing. They are the most profitable/successful company in the world right now. $700bn is insane market cap, its 2-3x GE under Jack welch. They should be 100% focused on kicking ass with product. Buy some map companies or whatever. Spend $1-…

That same emotion drives passion that results in amazing products. I'm not sure you can separate the two.

I agree with your premise, but not your conclusion. Counter-example: Look at pro sports. Those guys/gals live off emotion. They train themselves to be passionate, but incredibly focused. When they mess up, they distinguish physical mistake from "mental error". The latter is lack of focus. Wrong thing at the wrong place and the wrong time... Its not lack of motivation, passion, skill, or dedication.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#80

Post by NZ_Matt »

fl3tch wrote: post #32
milesskorpen wrote: post #21

This article makes a legitimate point about the maps application. But I don't get the strange tangent on Google+ — why would anyone expect Apple to anoint the social network of a competitor which isn't even that popular?

It should be noted that Mike Elgan is a prolific user and advocate of G+ with a big following. https://plus.google.com/+MikeElgan/posts

The only people advocating G+ are tech journalists that have a strong following and like to market their websites on it. It just doesn't have a lot of utility for the average folk who primarily want to engage with their friends and family.
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