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IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

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Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#231

(Article is from 2023, so the title should be updated to say "32 years ago", or something) The biggest loss in TUIs is the latest wave of asynchronous frameworks, which bring the joy of dropped keypresses to the terminal. In any TUI released before the year 2000, if you press a key when the system wasn't ready, the key would just wait until the system was ready. Many TUIs today still do this, but increasingly frequen…

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Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people love an IDE product so much that they can't work without it, they have overspecialised to their detriment. And possibly to the detriment of the code itself. > As for terminal IDEs The GNU/Linux terminal is the killer app . Multiple terminals in a tiling window manager is peak productivity for me. (Browser in a separate virtual workspace.) And modern scaling for a big display is unbeatable for developer er…

Good luck writing Java with notepad.

Tons of people did that but with nvi/vim and calling javac by hand.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#233

I used to use a Java-oriented IDE called “Visix Vibe”, at first as an experiment in application development with Java and then as an alternative to Delphi, which was my bread and butter tooling environment for custom application development. Both of these IDE’s gave me a huge productivity boost, and it used to be a no-brainer to give customers a realizable estimate for getting the UI done, then wiring up logic, and g…

You may laugh, but that is how I use html forms today. Simple. And effective.

I wouldn’t laugh at that, but my context is native applications and will be, for a while. Sure, the web is great and all. But native applications still have a part to play - especially in realms requiring custom applications be built, i.e. not for mass-market.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#234
post #229

I saw this and was like, what? > have we advanced much in 30 years? IDEs have changed a lot, specially with AI-assisted ones. The author kind of acknowledges it, but imho it's a paradigm shift. Not just "a major difference". > The only major difference that we are starting to see might be AI-assisted coding, but this is a feature mostly provided by a remote service, not even by the installed code! Then I realized it’…

Is this not an overstatement? How does a person understand code if they write so much of it with AI?

Because I tell AI exactly what and very often how to write the code to avoid sub-optimal solutions AI so keen to propose if not properly directed.

As for autocompletion, not sure about every tool but CLion and other IDEs I have from JetBrains are genius. Yes they can autocomplete multiple lines of code with a single keystrokes and no I do not really want to write it myself as it mostly boilerplate code I've written many times and autocompletion just predicts it.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people love an IDE product so much that they can't work without it, they have overspecialised to their detriment. And possibly to the detriment of the code itself. > As for terminal IDEs The GNU/Linux terminal is the killer app . Multiple terminals in a tiling window manager is peak productivity for me. (Browser in a separate virtual workspace.) And modern scaling for a big display is unbeatable for developer er…

> When people love an IDE product so much that they can't work without it, they have overspecialised to their detriment. I think you are wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory Being extremely good at something increases the gap between said something and everything else. That doesn't mean being extremely good at the first thing is "over-specialization to detriment". If someone is equally mediocre at every…

What if the IDE is a LeapFrog 2-in-1 Educational Laptop

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#236
By this point in college 30 years ago I had switched to mostly emacs, and was struggling with it - our program was unix based (solaris) with gcc. But a few years before that I was using turbo pascal, which was indeed a very fast ide, partially by virtue of how low latency hardware was back then.

I like these programs, mostly for that sweet low latency which is just gone today, but I wouldn't romanticize them as dev experiences. To experience it you can download free pascal today and use theirs which is just like turbo pascal (may even based on turbo pascal?). Its pretty clunky compared to what you get today, although, the debugger works which is more than what you can say for the majority of languages today.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#237
Ahh, memories. I started hacking in Emacs on my Amiga 2000 in 1988. And later in Turbo Pascal in 1991ish.

When I saw Visual Studio years later, or Visual Basic, these IDEs were doing so much more, but I‘d lose the ability to fully control the bare text. These MS tools wouldn’t allow me to write my code in my favourite text editor and version it. So they were nice and a curse at the same time.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So many of those classic TUIs adopted WordStar’s sacred keystrokes. What are the WordStar bindings and what do you like about them? I have a general interest in the history of how these patterns emerge and what the benefits of them are relative to each other.

Sci-fi author Robert Sawyer (who has won Hugo and Nebula awards) is a big fan of Wordstar -- he uses it to write his books. I highly recommend reading this: https://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm

So is George R.R. Martin.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26695017

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#239
post #70

In the golden age of DOS you had an array of bytes representing characters and an array representing attributes (background and foreground colors) and the hardware drew out of that. If you wanted to write a ‘A’ to a certain spot you wrote 0x41 to a certain memory address and that was that —- there were some wait states involved but it was way faster than drawing on a 9600 baud terminal with ANSI terminal commands tha…

Damn that actually sounds superior. How did changing the size work?

You called an "interrupt," which was basically a system call. That changed a bunch of timing registers within the video hardware. For a long time you basically could only do 40, 80 columns of text and 25, 43, or 50 lines. With some trickery you could get the video hardware to output 90 columns and with even more trickery you could get 60 rows.

If you made a custom font you could also have more diversity in the number of rows too but this was rarely done.

Eventually different text modes became available with higher resolution video cards and monitors. 132 columns of text were common but there were others.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#240

(Article is from 2023, so the title should be updated to say "32 years ago", or something) The biggest loss in TUIs is the latest wave of asynchronous frameworks, which bring the joy of dropped keypresses to the terminal. In any TUI released before the year 2000, if you press a key when the system wasn't ready, the key would just wait until the system was ready. Many TUIs today still do this, but increasingly frequen…

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Most of my work is done on remote machines. Nothing beats tmux+tuis in this paradigm.
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