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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#281

Post by Macha »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #68
eric_khun wrote: post #38

AWS won't raise the limits on our new account (we're stuck at 1GB RAM in Lightsail after 2 months, even though we need to launch this month). Looking at Hetzner or Vultr as alternatives. A few folks mentioned me Infomaniak has great service and uptime, but I haven't heard much about them otherwise. Anyone used Infomaniak in production? How do they compare to Hetzner/Vultr?

Just curious, what are you building/launching that requires more than 1GB of RAM at launch? 1GB is a lot of memory for most use cases, guessing something involving graphics or maybe simulations? In those cases, dedicated instances with proper hardware will give you enormous performance benefits, FYI. Both Vultr and Hetzner are solid options, I'd go for Hetzner if I know the users are around Europe or close to it, and…

A Wordpress install that makes it to the top of HN can use 1GB of RAM

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#282

Post by blibble »

Aissen wrote: post #180
rightbyte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is old is new again. My employer is so conservative and slow that they are forerunning this Local Cloud Edge Our Basement thing by just not doing anything.

As an infrastructure engineer (amongst other things), hard disagree here. I realize you might be joking, but a bit of context here: a big chunk of the success of Cloud in more traditional organizations is the agility that comes with it: (almost) no need to ask permission to anyone, ownership of your resources, etc. There is no reason that baremetal shouldn't provide the same customer-oriented service, at least for th…

don't underestimate the ability of traditional organisations to build that process around cloud

you keep the usual BS to get hardware, plus now it's 10x more expensive and requires 5x the engineering!

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#283

Post by ecshafer »

kitd wrote: post #253
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

People are usually the biggest cost in any organisation. If you can run all your systems without the sysadmins & netadmins required to keep it all upright (especially at expensive times like weekends or run up to Black Friday/Xmas), you can save yourself a lot more than the extra it'll cost to get a cloud provider to do it all for you.

Every large organization that is all in on cloud I have worked at has several teams doing cloud work exclusively (CICD, Devops, SRE, etc), but every individual team is spending significant amounts of their time doing cloud development on top of that work.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#284

Post by casparvitch »

andybak wrote: post #153

I love how few comments on this and similar posts give much context along with their advice. Are you hosting a church newsletter in your spare time or a resource intensive web app with millions of paying enterprise customers and a dedicated dev ops team in 3 continents? Any advice on price / performance / availability is meaningless unless you explain where you're coming from. The reason we see people overcomplicatin…

IDK mate, my personal pastebin needs to run on bare metal or it can't keep up

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#285

Post by fun444555 »

odie5533 wrote: post #266
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

Complexity? I've never set up a highly available Postgres and Redis cluster on dedicated hardware, but I can not imagine it's easier than doing it in AWS which is only a few clicks and I don't have to worry about OS upgrades and patches. Or a highly available load balancer with infinite scale.

I have done many postgres deploys on bare metal. The IOPS and storage space saved (zfs compression because psql is meh) is huge. I regularly used hosted dbs but largely for toy DBs in GBs not TBs.

Anyway, it is not hard and controlling upgrades saves so much time. Having a clients db force upgraded when there is no budget for it sucks.

Anyway, I encourage you to learn/try it when you have opportunity

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#286

Post by cess11 »

adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

I've left a job because it was impossible to explain this to an ex-Googler on the board who just couldn't stop himself from trying to be a CTO and clownmaker at the company.

The rough part was that we had made hardware investments and spent almost a year setting up the system for HA and immediate (i.e. 'low-hanging fruit') performance tuning and should have turned to architectural and more subtle improvements. This was a huge achievement for a very small team that had neither the use nor the wish to go full clown.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#287

Post by swiftcoder »

matt-p wrote: post #206
swiftcoder wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and that default strategy tends to become very, very painful the first time you encounter non-trivial database corruption. For example, one of my employers routinely tested DB restore by wiping an entire table in stage, and then having the on call restore from backup. This is trivial because you know it happened recently, you have low traffic in this instance, and you can cleanly copy over the missing table. Bu…

Yeah, but automating a solution for all possible "one off subtle data corruption bugs" is a lot of energy and effort to be honest.

For sure. It's more about having a pipeline for pulling data from multiple sources - rather than spin up a whole new DB cluster, you usually want to pull the data into new tables in your existing DB, so that you can run queries across old & new data simultaneously

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#288

Post by DisabledVeteran »

realitysballs wrote: post #222
adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Ya but then you need to pay for a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch. The salaries of those professionals , really only make sense for a certain sized organization. I still think small-midsized orgs may be better off in cloud for security / operations cost optimization.

That used to be the case until recently. As much as neither I nor you want to admit it -- the truth is ChatGPT can handle 99% of what you would pay for "a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch." Infact, ChatGPT surpasses them as it is all encompassing. Any company now can simply pay for OpenAI's services and save the majority of the money they would have spent on the, "salaries of those professionals." BTW, ChatGPT Pro is only $200 a month ... who do you think they would rather pay?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#289

Post by Aissen »

michaelt wrote: post #226
Aissen wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an infrastructure engineer (amongst other things), hard disagree here. I realize you might be joking, but a bit of context here: a big chunk of the success of Cloud in more traditional organizations is the agility that comes with it: (almost) no need to ask permission to anyone, ownership of your resources, etc. There is no reason that baremetal shouldn't provide the same customer-oriented service, at least for th…

"No need to ask permission" and "You get the same bill every month" kinda work against one another here.

I should have been more precise… Many sub-orgs have budget freedom to do their job, and not having to go through a central authority to get hardware is often a feature. Hence why Cloud works so well in non-regulatory heavy traditional orgs: budget owner can just accept the risks and let the people do the work. My comment was more of a warning to would-be infrastructure people: they absolutely need to be customer-focused, and build automation from the start.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#290

Post by ccakes »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #102
codethief wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love to know if they are any north-american (particularly canadian) companies that can compete with price and the quality of service like Hetzner FWIW, Hetzner has two data centers in the US, in case you're just looking for "Hetzner quality but in the US", not for "American/Canadian companies similar to Hetzner".

IIRC, Hetzners dedicated instances are only available in their German and Finnish data centers, not anywhere else sadly :/

latitude.sh do bare metal in the US well
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