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Apple M5 chip

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Re: Apple M5 chip

#541

The M5 MacBook Pro still gets the Broadcom WiFi chip but the M5 iPad Pros get the N1 and C1X (Sweet). All in all, apple is doing some incredible things with hardware. Software teams at apple really need to get their act together. The M1 itself is so powerful that nobody really needs to upgrade that for most things most people do on their computers. Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same task…

I really wish apple sold the Mx to others like Lenovo. I would love to se a ThinkPad with an M5 running Linux.

What is the Linux experience on new Mac hardware? I'd be interested also in running a Macbuntu.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#542

The M5 MacBook Pro still gets the Broadcom WiFi chip but the M5 iPad Pros get the N1 and C1X (Sweet). All in all, apple is doing some incredible things with hardware. Software teams at apple really need to get their act together. The M1 itself is so powerful that nobody really needs to upgrade that for most things most people do on their computers. Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same task…

>The M5 MacBook Pro still gets the Broadcom WiFi chip but the M5 iPad Pros get the N1 and C1X (Sweet). Is that good? Their cellular modems have been terrible. I'll reserve judgement until trying one out. >The M1 itself is so powerful I think this is a bit of a fallacy. Apple Silicon is great for the power consumption to power ratio, but something like a Ryzen 9 7945HX can do 3x more work than an M1 Max. And a non-lap…

Those ratios seem way off if you're referring to the M1 Max and not the base M1. If we use Geekbench CPU performance, the Ryzen 9 7945HX (which is from 2023) is around 12% faster single core and 32% faster multicore than the M1 Max (which is from 2021). If you look at the 2024 M4 Max, it's substantially faster than the Ryzen and Intel you mentioned.

https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-9-7945hx

https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-ultra-7-...

https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-pro-16-inch-2021-...

https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-pro-16-inch-2024-...

Re: Apple M5 chip

#543
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same tasks ive been last couple of years. I have a work provided M2 Pro with 32GB of RAM. After the Tahoe upgrade it feels like one of the sluggish PCs at the house. It is the only one that I can see the mouse teleporting sometimes when I move it fast. This is after disabling transparency in Accessibility settings mind you, it was even worse before.

It's probably due to the Electron bug[1]. A lot of common apps haven't patched up yet. I also have an M2 Pro with 32GB of memory. When I A/B test with Electron apps running vs without, the lag disappears when all the unpatched Electron apps are closed out. 1. https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ Here's a script I got from somewhere that shows unpatched Electron apps on your system: Edit: HN nerfed the script. Foun…

unpatched include Asana, Bitwarden, Dropbox… some pretty high-profile apps

Re: Apple M5 chip

#544
post #165

So how many hardware systems does Apple silicon have for doing matrix multiplies now? 1. CPU, via SIMD/NEON instructions (just dot products) 2. CPU, via AMX coprocessor (entire matrix multiplies, M1-M3) 3. CPU, via SME (M4) 4. GPU, via Metal (compute shaders + simdgroup-matrix + mps matrix kernels) 4. Neural Engine via CoreML (advisory) Apple also appears to be adding a “Neural Accelerator” to each core on the M5?

I wonder if some Apple-made software, like Final Cut, make use of all of those "duplicated" instructions at the same time for getting a better performance...

I know how just the multitasking nature of the OS probably make this situation happens across different programs, but nonetheless would be pretty cool!

Re: Apple M5 chip

#545
post #392

M5 is 4-6x more powerful than M4, which was 5x more powerful than M3, which was 4x more powerful than M2, which was 4x more powerful than M1, which itself was 6x faster than an equivalent Intel processor. Great! Looking at my Macbook though, I can say with utmost certainty that it isn't 4000x faster than the Intel one I had 5 years ago. So, where is the disconnect here? Why is actual user experience not able to keep…

> So, where is the disconnect here?

> I can say with utmost certainty that it isn't 4000x faster

The numbers you provided do not come to 4000x faster (closer to 2400x)

> Why is actual user experience not able to keep up with benchmarks and marketing?

Benchmarks and marketing are very different things, but you seem to be holding them up as similar here.

The 5x 6x 4x numbers you describe across marketing across many years don't even refer to the same thing. You're giving numbers with no context, which implies you're mixing them and the marketing worked because the only thing you're recalling is the big number.

Often, every M-series chip is a HUGE advancement over the past in GPU. Most of the "5x" performance jumps you describe are in graphics processing, and the "Intel" they're comparing it to is often an Intel iGPU like the Iris Xe or UHD series. These were low end trash iGPUs even when Apple launched those Intel devices, so being impressed by 5x performance when the M1 came out was in part because the Intel Macs had such terrible integrated graphics.

The M1 was a giant jump in overall system responsiveness, and the M-series seems to be averaging about a 20% year over year meaningful speed increase. If you use AI/ML/GPU, the M-series yearly upgrade is even better. Otherwise, for most things it's a nice and noticeable bump but not a Intel-to-M1 jump even from M1-to-M4.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#546
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same tasks ive been last couple of years. I have a work provided M2 Pro with 32GB of RAM. After the Tahoe upgrade it feels like one of the sluggish PCs at the house. It is the only one that I can see the mouse teleporting sometimes when I move it fast. This is after disabling transparency in Accessibility settings mind you, it was even worse before.

It's probably due to the Electron bug[1]. A lot of common apps haven't patched up yet. I also have an M2 Pro with 32GB of memory. When I A/B test with Electron apps running vs without, the lag disappears when all the unpatched Electron apps are closed out. 1. https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ Here's a script I got from somewhere that shows unpatched Electron apps on your system: Edit: HN nerfed the script. Foun…

Helpful script, except it prints the same line regardless of the version found.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#547
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Broadcom WiFi support 320Mhz while N1 is stuck with 160Mhz. I was at a Wi-Fi vendor presentation a while back and they said that 160 Mhz is pretty improbable unless you're leaving alone and no wireless networks around you. And 320 Mhz even less so. In real life probably the best you can get is 80 Mhz in a really good wireless environment.

I would believe that MLO or similar features could make it a bit more likely that large amounts of bandwidth would be useful, as it allows using discontiguous frequencies. WiFi does currently get anywhere near the bandwidth that these huge channels advertise in realistic environments.

OFDMA also makes it more useful, but I don't know if vendors actually use that in practice.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#548

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

The porting is not straightforward; you must switch to Metal, you should adapt rendering pipeline to tiled deferred shading.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#549
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend the Apple remote .. then you also don't need to take your phone with you when you are watching TV, which is an added benefit for some. Of course the thin Apple remote has a way of getting lost, but it has a Find Me feature which locates it pretty well.

Remote is fine, but it's always stuck in a couch cushion.

Same here.. so we use that Find Remote functionality about once a month! Without it we'd be lost. Business idea: Make a cover for the Apple remote that makes it bigger and harder to lose.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#550

> M5 brings its industry-leading power-efficient performance to the new 14-inch MacBook Pro, iPad Pro, and Apple Vision Pro Not for Mac mini?

They'll put it in the Mini when they push out a new Studio to upsell to.
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