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Thank you Apple

commandcenter.blogspot.com

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Re: Thank you Apple

#31

Post by aidos »

dchichkov wrote: post #16
miles wrote: post #4

It had surprised me when Lion came out that the installation was done by an "app", not as a bootable image. This is an unnecessary complication for those of us that need to maintain machines. Earlier, when updating a different machine, I had learned how painful this could be when the installation app destroyed the boot sector and I needed to reinstall Snow Leopard from DVD, and then upgrade that to a version of the s…

Yeah. I remember going through Snow L -> Lion. I wanted a clean system so had to make an ISO. Process reminded me a linux install from USB from 10 years back. And I lost iPhoto. Because suddenly my Macbook Air stopped being eligible for free iPhoto.

I had an annoying scenario recently.

I reinstalled Snow L on an older machine and then could no longer reinstall iphoto. I'd paid for it on my app store account but there was no way to install the older version (and I couldn't upgrade to the newer version).

Once again reinforced the danger of the cloud hosted licensing model; software I paid for wasn't actually mine to keep/use.

Re: Thank you Apple

#34

Post by aidos »

cletus wrote: post #30

IMHO not having install media as the default option is a problem. It doesn't matter if all the media does is boot up a network stack and FTP it from somewhere and then run it but recovery scenarios aren't something you should have to twist yourself into a loop to solve. One of the advantages of the App Store model is that software is (AFAIK) easily redownloaded and reinstalled, so much so that I know people who have…

I mentioned in another post - you can't always redownload. They don't keep older versions so you're screwed if you can't upgrade (I have an older machine stuck with Snow L).

Re: Thank you Apple

#35

Post by mhenr18 »

cletus wrote: post #30

IMHO not having install media as the default option is a problem. It doesn't matter if all the media does is boot up a network stack and FTP it from somewhere and then run it but recovery scenarios aren't something you should have to twist yourself into a loop to solve. One of the advantages of the App Store model is that software is (AFAIK) easily redownloaded and reinstalled, so much so that I know people who have…

When I had issues doing an install of Lion (I wanted Lion on an external HD before I upgraded to ML), I just drove out to an Apple Store and booted off one of their network images.

What Apple should really do is ship an app with OSX that lets you create recovery boot media (either on DVD, a thumb drive or a full on external HD). That would make things so much easier for everyone.

Re: Thank you Apple

#36

Post by jlgreco »

eropple wrote: post #22
davvid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting in that when it comes to computers, he knows what he's doing.

Does he? Not a knock on Rob Pike, obviously a very smart dude, but knowing computers at one point doesn't mean you've invested the time to keep up with them since. My dad was a network engineer in the 90's and early 00's and I learned a lot from him, but these days, when he needs to pick out a laptop or something, he asks me. I'm more connected to it than he is now, because he has other things on his plate.

If Rob Pike can be said to be too technically unfamiliar for an Apple product, then there is something very very wrong with Apple's expectations of their users.

Re: Thank you Apple

#37

Post by arrrg »

(This does not in any way excuse anything he encountered. That is and will always remain inexcusable.)

Apple is aware of those problems and hard at work fixing them. All current Macs, for example, now come with Internet Recovery, meaning it is possible to boot them into the recovery manager (and from there it’s possible to run Disk Utility, the Terminal or the installer), even with a completely empty HDD. All the iLife apps you get with your Mac (and all apps you buy in the App Store) are automatically tied to your Apple ID, meaning you can download them as often as you want. You cannot even buy any software on CDs from Apple anymore (the lone exception to that is Logic Studio).

I assume (hope!) that all Time Machine bugs have been fixed, but do not know. It seems weird that even the latest version of OS X Lion would come with those bugs, so I’m not sure what’s going on there. At any rate, the experience he had is unacceptable.

Re: Thank you Apple

#38

Post by aprescott »

languagehacker wrote: post #12

Sounds like he had a bad day. Oh well. Probably as much of an unproductive waste of time to write this long, passive-aggressive blog post.

Sounds like he had a bad day.

Did you read the whole thing?

It took weeks to get everything working again properly.

Because I could prove that I had paid for the software, Apple agreed to send me fresh installation disks for everything of theirs but Aperture, but that would take time. In fact, it took almost a month for the iWork DVD to arrive, which is unacceptably long. I even needed to call twice to remind them before the disks were shipped.

Re: Thank you Apple

#39

Post by georgemcbay »

msbarnett wrote: post #11
3am_hackernews wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point isn't that is impossible to be able to do a clean install of an OS and apps (Time Machine included) you have already paid (premium!) for but the fact that it is non-trivial and very much involved - all the things for which the Apple system stood against. Most of the newer Apple products are a black box which cannot be fixed unless even the technically competent users take extra efforts(^). And this…

> I think the point isn't that is impossible to be able to do a clean install of an OS and apps (Time Machine included) you have already paid (premium!) for but the fact that it is non-trivial and very much involved - all the things for which the Apple system stood against. I'm not sure I agree? Apple's always optimized for the average person's average case. "Those of us that need to maintain machines" aren't the ave…

Your last paragraph is just totally wrong. Ever since MS has been selling Windows online, they've also been providing a tool which will put the ISO onto bootable DVD or USB (your choice).

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbPage.Help...

They point to this tool pretty clearly as part of the purchase process.

So with MS you can do it anyway you like: Installation as an app, or an ISO which you may trivially burn to a DVD or flash to a USB drive using a tool that they also provide.

Re: Thank you Apple

#40

Post by arrrg »

mhenr18 wrote: post #35
cletus wrote: post #30

IMHO not having install media as the default option is a problem. It doesn't matter if all the media does is boot up a network stack and FTP it from somewhere and then run it but recovery scenarios aren't something you should have to twist yourself into a loop to solve. One of the advantages of the App Store model is that software is (AFAIK) easily redownloaded and reinstalled, so much so that I know people who have…

When I had issues doing an install of Lion (I wanted Lion on an external HD before I upgraded to ML), I just drove out to an Apple Store and booted off one of their network images. What Apple should really do is ship an app with OSX that lets you create recovery boot media (either on DVD, a thumb drive or a full on external HD). That would make things so much easier for everyone.

It doesn’t ship with one, but you can download it here: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1433 (That link is placed on this page about OS X recovery, so it’s not hard to find: http://www.apple.com/osx/recovery/ – though it’s important to note that this wouldn’t have solved his particular problem. You can only use this app on a system that already has Mountain Lion installed, so you have to think of this before you encounter the problem – or have a second Mac at hand with the right OS.)

Current Macs also come with Internet Recovery, meaning it’s always possible to boot into the Recovery Manager, even with an empty HDD.

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