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Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

unkey.com

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Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#121

Author of that blog here, happy to answer any questions :)

Have you done new benchmarks since Cloudflare announced their latest round of performance improvements for Workers?

Just curious if this workload also saw some of the same improvements (on a quick read it seems like you could have been hitting the routing problem CF mentions)

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#122

These two have resonated with me deeply. - Eliminated complex caching workarounds and data pipeline overhead - Simplified architecture from distributed system to straightforward application We, as developers/engineers (put whatever title you want), tend to make things complex for no reason sometimes. Not all systems have to follow state-of-the-art best practices. Many times, secure, stable, durable systems outperform…

But when were serverless systems like lambda and cloud workers "best practices" for low latency apis?

According to their marketing material, when they started supporting running in edge pop's, they became the best option for low-latency APIs.

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#123
post #111

I think developers are drowning in tools to make things "easy", when in truth many problems are already easy with the most basic stuff in our tool belt (a compiler, some bash scripts, and some libraries). You can always build up from there. This tooling fetish hurts both companies and developers.

Yeah; IMO Docker was our last universal improvement to productivity, in 2013, and very little we've invented since then can be said to have had such a wide-ranging positive impact, with such few drawbacks. Some systems are helpful for some companies, but then try to get applied to other companies where they don't make sense and things fall apart or productivity suffers. Cloudflare and others are trying to make v8 iso…

Docker + IaC* for me; git ops, immutable servers, immutable code, immutable config, (nearly) immutable infrastructure means I haven't had to drop to the command line on a server since 2015. If something is wrong you restart the container, if that doesn't work you restart the host it's running on. The "downside" to this is my "admin" shell skills outside of personal dev laptop commands have gotten rusty.

*Terraform, imo, released in ~2014

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#124
post #23

The takeaway here isn’t that serverless doesn’t work, it’s that the authors didn’t understand what they were building on. Putting a latency-critical API on a stateless edge runtime was a rookie mistake, and the pain they describe was entirely predictable.

This is basically criticizing them for admitting to being one of today's 10,000.

https://xkcd.com/1053/

Personally, I appreciate the info and the admission.

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#125
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backup strategy? What do you mean by that?

Servers go down. What is the plan to get them "backup" and running ;)

But is this not needed with the so-called cloud systems?

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#126
post #100

Like the article says, I think serverless has it's place, but I don't think it's for most applications. I can't see myself _ever_ using serverless services as a core part of my application for pretty much any startup, if I can avoid it. The infrastructure overhead is actually worse, IMO. Everything is so platform specific and it's much stranger to test and develop against locally. Each platform has a different way to…

That’s why Knative (Serverless on Kubernetes) accepts containers. It’s the standard packaging format that lets you lift and shift apps to many different platforms.

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#127
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah; IMO Docker was our last universal improvement to productivity, in 2013, and very little we've invented since then can be said to have had such a wide-ranging positive impact, with such few drawbacks. Some systems are helpful for some companies, but then try to get applied to other companies where they don't make sense and things fall apart or productivity suffers. Cloudflare and others are trying to make v8 iso…

Docker + IaC* for me; git ops, immutable servers, immutable code, immutable config, (nearly) immutable infrastructure means I haven't had to drop to the command line on a server since 2015. If something is wrong you restart the container, if that doesn't work you restart the host it's running on. The "downside" to this is my "admin" shell skills outside of personal dev laptop commands have gotten rusty. *Terraform, i…

> If something is wrong you restart the container, if that doesn't work you restart the host it's running on

Haha, lucky you. If only world was this beautiful :) I regularly shell into Kubernetes nodes to debug memory leaks from non-limited pods, or to check some strange network issues.

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#128

I think developers are drowning in tools to make things "easy", when in truth many problems are already easy with the most basic stuff in our tool belt (a compiler, some bash scripts, and some libraries). You can always build up from there. This tooling fetish hurts both companies and developers.

Excerpt AWS lambda is stupidly cheap!

The amount of 0s in the price per second is mesmerizing, but just multiply this by 24h and 30 days, and you are well within the price range of a better EC2 with much better performance, plus you can process 1000 req/s instead of 1 req/s for the same price.

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#129
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when were serverless systems like lambda and cloud workers "best practices" for low latency apis?

According to their marketing material, when they started supporting running in edge pop's, they became the best option for low-latency APIs.

Last I heard (~5 years ago), lambda@edge doesn't actually run on edge POPs anyway; they're just hooks that you can put in your edge configs that execute logic in the nearest region before/after running your edge config. But it's definitely a datacenter round-trip to invoke them.

Adding that much compute to an edge POP is a big lift; even firecracker gets heavy at scale. And security risk for executing arbitrary code since these POPs don't have near the physical security of a datacenter, small scale makes more vulnerable to timing attacks, etc.

Re: Leaving serverless led to performance improvement and a simplified architecture

#130

I think developers are drowning in tools to make things "easy", when in truth many problems are already easy with the most basic stuff in our tool belt (a compiler, some bash scripts, and some libraries). You can always build up from there. This tooling fetish hurts both companies and developers.

Helps resumes! No one got to Staff suggesting bash scripts
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