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Thank you Apple

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Re: Thank you Apple

#11

Post by msbarnett »

3am_hackernews wrote: post #6
miles wrote: post #4

It had surprised me when Lion came out that the installation was done by an "app", not as a bootable image. This is an unnecessary complication for those of us that need to maintain machines. Earlier, when updating a different machine, I had learned how painful this could be when the installation app destroyed the boot sector and I needed to reinstall Snow Leopard from DVD, and then upgrade that to a version of the s…

I think the point isn't that is impossible to be able to do a clean install of an OS and apps (Time Machine included) you have already paid (premium!) for but the fact that it is non-trivial and very much involved - all the things for which the Apple system stood against. Most of the newer Apple products are a black box which cannot be fixed unless even the technically competent users take extra efforts(^). And this…

> I think the point isn't that is impossible to be able to do a clean install of an OS and apps (Time Machine included) you have already paid (premium!) for but the fact that it is non-trivial and very much involved - all the things for which the Apple system stood against.

I'm not sure I agree?

Apple's always optimized for the average person's average case. "Those of us that need to maintain machines" aren't the average person engaged in the average case activity; they're engaged in a corner case activity and should have the knowledge to swing the non-trivial (but still trivial) ISO extraction method.

This is a small inconvenience for a small section of their customer base with a big upside: updating one OS version to the next over the internet is dead-stupid easy for the non-technical majority.

It beats the hell out of what for years has passed as Microsoft's version of selling you an OS upgrade over the internet; paying for a download of an .iso, figuring out what to do with an .iso, burning it, and using it is easier for the "those of us that need to maintain machines", but way out of reach for the non-technical majority. It's optimizing for exactly the wrong case.

Re: Thank you Apple

#13

Post by smoyer »

I'm also having one of those days ... I just updated Ubuntu on a newish machine and now have no sound and snow on the screen where video had been. Some days I hate computers and hope they're just a passing fad.

Re: Thank you Apple

#14

Post by bitcartel »

If you use FileVault on your main drive or on your Time Machine, here are some tips I picked up on Lion, which might make your life easier. Things may have changed, but should still apply to Mountain Lion.

On each machine you have, download the Lion Installer app via the App Store. The app seems to be different for different models of Mac. From experience, it seems one model Mac might not be able to use the installer from a different model Mac. Open the app package and burn the ESDInstall.dmg to a USB stick to use as an installer.

Using the USB installer, erase the drive as a single partition, and perform a clean install of Lion. This ensures the recovery partition is created on the drive.

Launching the USB installer again, format the main partition and then restore from your encrypted Time Machine.

The partition you are restoring to is unencrypted so when the restore is complete, reboot your Mac, and manually enable FileVault (if you want it).

Re: Thank you Apple

#15

Post by vvhn »

miles wrote: post #4

It had surprised me when Lion came out that the installation was done by an "app", not as a bootable image. This is an unnecessary complication for those of us that need to maintain machines. Earlier, when updating a different machine, I had learned how painful this could be when the installation app destroyed the boot sector and I needed to reinstall Snow Leopard from DVD, and then upgrade that to a version of the s…

Also, Lion did actually come on an installable USB drive (which is more expensive than the App store Installer app). Not Mountain Lion though. Creating bootable disks (USB or DVD) from the installer app is trivial.

Also his other point about losing all installers is actually a point in favor of the app store distribution model. They're always there unlike a physical disk which can go bad on you.

Time machine and Migration Assistant errors he rightly cribs about though. It is imperative that they work right.

All in all it's strange that one of the people who did seminal work in the early days of UNIX and C comes off looking like lost layperson. You'd expect him to be able to be able to deal with this way better.

Re: Thank you Apple

#16

Post by dchichkov »

miles wrote: post #4

It had surprised me when Lion came out that the installation was done by an "app", not as a bootable image. This is an unnecessary complication for those of us that need to maintain machines. Earlier, when updating a different machine, I had learned how painful this could be when the installation app destroyed the boot sector and I needed to reinstall Snow Leopard from DVD, and then upgrade that to a version of the s…

Yeah. I remember going through Snow L -> Lion. I wanted a clean system so had to make an ISO. Process reminded me a linux install from USB from 10 years back.

And I lost iPhoto. Because suddenly my Macbook Air stopped being eligible for free iPhoto.

Re: Thank you Apple

#17

Post by Samuel_Michon »

3am_hackernews wrote: post #6
miles wrote: post #4

It had surprised me when Lion came out that the installation was done by an "app", not as a bootable image. This is an unnecessary complication for those of us that need to maintain machines. Earlier, when updating a different machine, I had learned how painful this could be when the installation app destroyed the boot sector and I needed to reinstall Snow Leopard from DVD, and then upgrade that to a version of the s…

I think the point isn't that is impossible to be able to do a clean install of an OS and apps (Time Machine included) you have already paid (premium!) for but the fact that it is non-trivial and very much involved - all the things for which the Apple system stood against. Most of the newer Apple products are a black box which cannot be fixed unless even the technically competent users take extra efforts(^). And this…

”I think the point isn't that is impossible to be able to do a clean install of an OS and apps (Time Machine included) you have already paid (premium!) for”

Huh? Mac users don't pay for OS X licenses, they only pay for upgrades. Time Machine is included in the OS, free of charge. OS X applications, and especially Apple's apps, are often cheaper than similar software on other platforms.

Re: Thank you Apple

#18

Post by jlgreco »

Krylez wrote: post #8
akshaym wrote: post #5

I think it's interesting to point out that this is Rob Pike. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Pike

Interesting in that his industry veteran status gives this merit or interesting in that his employment makes him a shill?

Considering that Google does not exactly have a competing product with OSX, why should he be a shill?

Re: Thank you Apple

#19

Post by chm »

After witnessing my dad's troubles with TimeMachine, I bought a copy of SuperDuper!.

It's amazing software, and it saved me once now, it's been only a year since I've been using it. Hard-drive fails? Plug in external one, and use your computer as if nothing happened.

Their "smart update" feature is very useful.

http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription...

Re: Thank you Apple

#20

Post by skeletonjelly »

davvid wrote: post #9
Krylez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting in that his industry veteran status gives this merit or interesting in that his employment makes him a shill?

Interesting in that when it comes to computers, he knows what he's doing.

Wonder why he posted a photo of the inside of his iMac as if it was foreign to him then.
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