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FSF announces Librephone project

fsf.org

441–450 of 669 posts

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#441

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

PostmarketOS has never achieved proper support on any device so far.

Doesn't this count? https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Purism_Librem5_(purism-li...

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#442
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you hoping the Free Software Foundation _doesn't_ prioritize Free Software ? For people who are okay with random bits of proprietary software doing who-knows-what on their devices there are various alternatives already.

To me: Open Source Firmware signed by OS > Firmware blob signed by device manufacturer > Firmware blob hardcoded by device Manufacturer The FSF treats hardcoded firmware blobs as "free" and updatable firmware blobs as nonfree despite there not being a big difference between them in practice. And practical differences like being able to fix security issues benefits users.

Thank you for clearing that up, I clearly misread that completely.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#443

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#444
post #412

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

Why partner with postmarketOS, LineageOS, GrapheneOS, or CalyxOS? This would be an open source initiative that contributors from any of those projects to add to. The results could be used by any of the aforementioned distributions, and more. It might even make running vanilla Linux on our exiting smartphones viable. Why partner with Fairphone and Pine64? They already have open hardware, and require zero reverse engin…

This type of semi-whataboutist comment appears at the top of most open source project announcements.

Once we live in a centrally planned utopia these projects will all be merged with each other and produce the perfect phone/operating system/smart watch.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#445
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The FSF is now under the leadership of a "Bachelor of Arts degree in Media and Culture and a Master of Arts in the Preservation and Presentation of the Moving Image" who probably hasn't written a line of code. This is an exceptionally poor argument. 1. Coders are biased and often not aligned with users whose rights FSF is there to protect. Just look at any OSS vs FS discussion on this site to see examples. 2. Your…

In free software those who write code decide what is done and nobody else matters in the end.

Telling anyone with opinions on your code to bug off as you disregard any outside input is a fine way to make sure no one uses it.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The FSF is now under the leadership of a "Bachelor of Arts degree in Media and Culture and a Master of Arts in the Preservation and Presentation of the Moving Image" who probably hasn't written a line of code. This is an exceptionally poor argument. 1. Coders are biased and often not aligned with users whose rights FSF is there to protect. Just look at any OSS vs FS discussion on this site to see examples. 2. Your…

> Coders are biased and often not aligned with users whose rights FSF is there to protect. Just look at any OSS vs FS discussion on this site to see examples.

Programmers understand software ecosystems, of which free software is just a subset. I also see a lot of programmers advocating leaderships and other non-technical skills generally. If you observe a pattern where a lot of coders seem biased, maybe there's something else going on?

> Good initiatives require strong argumentative basis to have a strong wide following

The FSF has circular logic all throughout their ideology. They only want to argue if you let them frame the conversation with their own conclusions along with a full deconstruction of views they didn't come up with, like open source, which they explicitly work to discredit and do not represent. It is little wonder that their following is not wide nor strong because they are divisive and completely incapable of working with others or incorporating ideological diversity. They are eclipsed by the EFF and several other organizations built around open source applications in terms of fund raising at this point. Don't listen to me. Just go look at some financials. You'll see how little they represent these days.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#447
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need more Torvalds and Van Rossums and Kawaguchis than Stallmans.

Not really. Without Stallman, there would be no Torvalds. After Stallman launched the GNU project, the emergence of GNU licensed kernel for x86 architecture was inevitable. It just happened that Linux became that kernel. Had it not, the GNU project folks led by rms would have inevitably made their own.

> After Stallman launched the GNU project, the emergence of GNU licensed kernel for x86 architecture was inevitable. It just happened that Linux became that kernel. Had it not, the GNU project folks led by rms would have inevitably made their own.

I'm not sure this is guaranteed. GNU and the FSF have absolutely provided an enormous amount to the concepts and implementation of OS software. No doubt about it. Without it Linux would not exist, but it doesn't mean that'd have resulted in a widely used GNU alternative.

BUT, GNU/FSF also has a long history of losing focus on coding and spending a lot of time on political and philosophical arguments. I think it more likely BSD may have headed to where linux ended up than GNU. Linux was successful because they moved forwards and arguments were settled relatively quickly (for better and worse), whereas Hurd got stuck in development hell as people argued over how pure the microkernel architecture should be, pushing away people who just wanted things to work - including volunteers. During the crucial period over the 1990s, open source software needed to get things done (kind of like a startup). There are videos out there of people speaking at conferences about their work on Linux, and RMS being in the audience interjecting that it's "GNU/Linux" every time Linux was uttered. Who wants to work in an environment like that?

Even today, people are looking at more and more alternatives to important GNU software because of stagnation or other technical merits. GCC has lately seen alternatives become more common, as an example.

This also ignores the hostility the FSF historically has/had towards the commercial industry. Torvalds largely accepted patches from anybody if the code worked as intended.

Maybe something could have come out, but my gut tells me that people would have gravitated to something else that worked.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#448
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Postmarket or Lineage or any other mobile operating system will be able to make use of this project. Any OS "is able" to use anything from any other OS - in theory and given infinite resources. In practice though, it makes a huge difference when something works by default.

No, software licensing often gets in the way.

How does the licensing affect firmware blobs?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#449

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

> Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined.

"Open source" didn't loose because it didn't fight anything. It was exactly "Open source" that enabled Google to dominate the smartphone landscape.

FSF and many other have been warning us for decades that Android been open source didn't matter because firmware, play store and many other components of Android were proprietary.

People gave a shit to them and now do you want to blame them for the results?

The diversity of projects were not and are not the problem. The problem is people that do nothing and only criticize.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#450
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope all the things you mention never become mandatory some day because I currently use my phone for voice and text only. Sooner than later I plan to get rid of my phone all together. I'm gonna surprise the phone company and get a land line. That means any online service that uses SMS/text to verify me will fail.

If you're being serious, you're in for a rude awakening. POTS lines are dead and being replaced with VOIP and VoIP to pots modems on the premise. lots of cities have already started to grub the copper out and replaced it a long time ago with fiber.

I get what you are saying but POTS in my location is still copper. I know because I dug it up when putting in a cattle guard. I will have to splice it back together and run it somewhere other than under my driveway which I had paved. 811 marked it as disco/not-in-use. The telco accidentally leaked their plans to run fiber everywhere so I might wait for them to do that. If it ends up being VoIP then maybe I would still have SMS capability for poor mans 2FA? Maybe the competition will drive the cost of my existing fiber down. To userbinator's point the end result will be no more options to install applications. It would just be a phone. I would be back to good old fashioned NSA voice monitoring.
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