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FSF announces Librephone project

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Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#321

Post by notrealyme123 »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #296
cookiengineer wrote: post #265

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

Why do we have to have million Linux distros? Why do we have to have dozen desktop environments? Because in FOSS world every single actor is a snowflake with unique vision. Any form of cooperation ends up in drama and moral accusations.

So what exactly is the problem? To many options?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#322

Post by rgrs »

saagarjha wrote: post #309
sunshine-o wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It sounds like Stallman had quite the impact on you. Is it really so foreign to you that putting someone in a leadership position that can broaden that reach to people who are unlike you might be worth doing?

How would you quantify reach? The PR or number of projects delivered?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#323

Post by qwertox »

guerrilla wrote: post #315
saagarjha wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Stallman had quite the impact on you. Is it really so foreign to you that putting someone in a leadership position that can broaden that reach to people who are unlike you might be worth doing?

Their point is obviously that they can't if they aren't qualified. I don't know if that's actually true but it's clear what they're arguing here anyway.

But how does this relate to gender? Even if you assume only two genders, why would being a feminine person play any role in their qualifications? That's what the comment was about.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#324

Post by notrealyme123 »

b112 wrote: post #318
moffkalast wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never use GOS as long as it requires me to buy a Pixel, on principle, because it's made by Google. It's like having to buy a Microsoft Surface in order to use Linux.

You can use an older pixel, thus not really giving money to Google, and also preventing that phone from landing in a landfill. Without all that Google and carrier excess junk on board, an older phone is fast. You can buy a new pixel, install GrapheneOS, and laugh thinking about how you're denying the enemy the OS level tracking they wanted with that device.

But you still support Google and the closed source Android ecosystem with that.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#325

Post by saagarjha »

guerrilla wrote: post #315
saagarjha wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Stallman had quite the impact on you. Is it really so foreign to you that putting someone in a leadership position that can broaden that reach to people who are unlike you might be worth doing?

Their point is obviously that they can't if they aren't qualified. I don't know if that's actually true but it's clear what they're arguing here anyway.

Stallman has historically done pretty poorly at getting people involved in the free software movement. Before someone goes "surely you are talking about women and other underrepresented groups" no I am not talking about them, although that is also important of course. I'm talking about the people who are not hackers, the people who are stuck using Microsoft Office at their job but want to know about better options, the people who want their computer to not suddenly update and sell them ads but couldn't name a single programming language. Stallman has really dropped the ball for those people. I used to think he was quirky and principled too and I value his contributions but when I zoom out I've stopped finding that he's able to campaign for change effectively. Maybe he was qualified in 1980 but in a world where everyone has a phone in their pocket that is not only proprietary but that they can only really interact with as an appliance, perhaps he is not the most qualified person anymore.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#326

Post by lenkite »

sunshine-o wrote: post #284
cookiengineer wrote: post #265

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

[flagged]

It is how the times are nowadays. You don't get the CEO throne of any org without chest-thumping your social justice initiatives. The FSF is merely following fully up2date standard operational procedures of Western civilization. How can you blame them for following the de-facto standards ?

Praise the Heavens that at-least 3/10 staff are coders. That is a far better ratio than most NGOs.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#327

Post by mcny »

fsflover wrote: post #308
wolvesechoes wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we have to have million Linux distros? Why do we have to have dozen desktop environments? Because in FOSS world every single actor is a snowflake with unique vision. Any form of cooperation ends up in drama and moral accusations.

Why do we need so many car models and manufacturers?

I don't mind the many multiple distributions but the default experience really sucks.

For example, there should only ever be one clipboard by default. If power users want multiple, they can go out of their way to configure their device config as such. Similarly, the function keys should function as function keys on a keyboard out of the box, without us having to fiddle with config files. Also the scroll wheel click to scroll should work out of the box without requiring editing config files. The default experience is still pretty poor.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#328

Post by beeforpork »

bebna wrote: post #280
cookiengineer wrote: post #265

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

I got an FP5, would not buy again.

We bought two FP5 with e/OS/ from Murena (for spouse and myself), and would buy again. Why wouldn't you?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#329

Post by j45 »

cookiengineer wrote: post #265

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

You have a good point about things coming together, but open source often is a lot of design and development by committee, or interest.

Librephone appears to be taking existing linux approaches, and specifically reverse engineering the SoC blobs to be completely free. I may have mis read, but it doesn't appear they are building another android distro for android phones, as they already have done that in the past.

Just tried to learn the difference between these and it seems like:

- Graphene - For current devices only - An alternative for phones that are supported and updated by Google. Security Patches, etc.

- LineageOS - For devices while they're supported or may not be updated that often. Support can be sometime by community members.

- PostmarketOS - devices that no longer have a maintained Android version for it, can just become a linux computer. Mobile functionality doesn't necessarily.

Some phone chips overtime end up having a hardware security flaw that software can't fix.

I really enjoy using Android. Part of the issue is not all deices get timely security updates, even if they get monthly updates, the updates might be from 6 months ago. Google might release a security patch but sometimes it has to go through the device manufacturer, and maybe even the mobile company. Pixel / Android pure installs seem to improve this a bit, but it's hard to have complete trust.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#330

Post by j45 »

sunshine-o wrote: post #284
cookiengineer wrote: post #265

Why can't they just partner with postmarketOS here? Why do we have to have /e/OS instead of a better supported LineageOS, because /e/ is a 1:1 copy anyways? Why do we have to have a Librephone project now instead of partnering with say, Fairphone and the Pine64 people? Open source loses this war because proprietary devices are streamlined. The only thing that comes close to this is GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and postmark…

[flagged]

FSF could finally take a look at webOS / Open WebOS and release it for devices.

Apps built in HTML/JS/CSS, straight from 2009.

The feminine vibe doesn't really land, and seems to kind of undermine the rest of what you're trying to say.

There's no shortages of OSS floating around with individuals butting heads about splitting hairs to their preferred interpretation, forking away into oblivion or to a standstill alone.

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