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FSF announces Librephone project

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Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#51

Post by jojobas »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #16
jojobas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some banks require app confirmation for PC-initiated transactions, using play integrity requiring apps. Cause security, you know.

It's because it's way easier to install malware on PC than mobile. None of us are immune either. In recent times there has been malware distributed by common NPM packages as well as game mods. Every NPM package you install has the ability to steal your browser session tokens and the only thing stopping the attacker from actually logging in and spending your money is the fact it has to be confirmed on your phone.

Choosing between a risk of that and preinstalled non-removable malware in every phone? Tough one, I know.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#52

Post by userbinator »

monero-xmr wrote: post #22
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #4

Ultimately, I don't think the most important challenge is in binary firmware blobs, but the software which people depend upon to run their lives. What does it matter if you can run a completely free software stack on your phone, if your bank software (or your required government ID, as is looking depressingly likely) requires you to run a Big Tech approved phone OS? Perhaps the FSF can't do much about that, but that…

Most importantly is to continue supporting web browser access and open web protocols. Then anyone with a web browser and device can use all the apps.

Actually "open" is a misnomer, maybe it was a decade ago but it's clear that Big G has an effective monopoly over browser(s), the web "standards", and is gradually making them more user-hostile.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#53

Post by koolala »

jojobas wrote: post #48
koolala wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of transactions require this? Normal bank transactions don't, right?

Transfer of more than a set amount between even your own accounts in different banks.

Between your own accounts is the main use-case because you typically can't transfer between different banks.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#54

Post by hnuser123456 »

kovac wrote: post #49
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #4

Ultimately, I don't think the most important challenge is in binary firmware blobs, but the software which people depend upon to run their lives. What does it matter if you can run a completely free software stack on your phone, if your bank software (or your required government ID, as is looking depressingly likely) requires you to run a Big Tech approved phone OS? Perhaps the FSF can't do much about that, but that…

I think this is the right place to start. A free OS will empower developers to implement technical workarounds that could trick these apps into working there. If the OS is tightly controlled, we have no recourse. Even in the worst case scenario, we could use a cheap big-tech-approved phone for these applications (a glorified digital token) and use the free phone for everything else. When there's enough adoption and t…

And I feel like it undermines any effort to make free, featureful applications if the hardware itself can't be trusted.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#55

Post by rjdj377dhabsn »

SoftTalker wrote: post #27
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #4

Ultimately, I don't think the most important challenge is in binary firmware blobs, but the software which people depend upon to run their lives. What does it matter if you can run a completely free software stack on your phone, if your bank software (or your required government ID, as is looking depressingly likely) requires you to run a Big Tech approved phone OS? Perhaps the FSF can't do much about that, but that…

Use the website. I’ve never seen a bank where a mobile app is the only option for remote access. If my bank did that, I’d switch banks.

In SE Asia, most banks I've used no longer offer any services other than through their app.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#57

Post by Dylan16807 »

tmtvl wrote: post #35
charcircuit wrote: post #17

>Librephone aims to close the last gaps between existing distributions of the Android operating system and software freedom I am so happy they are focusing on Android, one of the most popular operating systems widely used by every day people. This is important work for providing user friendly, free software to users. Let's just hope they don't fall into the trap of disqualifying binary blobs sent as part of drivers v…

Are you hoping the Free Software Foundation _doesn't_ prioritize Free Software ? For people who are okay with random bits of proprietary software doing who-knows-what on their devices there are various alternatives already.

That's not even close to what they said.

They're saying approval of any who-knows-what code shouldn't be decided based on how it's loaded.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#58

Post by [deleted] »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #4

Ultimately, I don't think the most important challenge is in binary firmware blobs, but the software which people depend upon to run their lives. What does it matter if you can run a completely free software stack on your phone, if your bank software (or your required government ID, as is looking depressingly likely) requires you to run a Big Tech approved phone OS? Perhaps the FSF can't do much about that, but that…

[deleted]

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#59

Post by arminiusreturns »

ACCount37 wrote: post #15

Unfortunately, even if you could completely de-blob the kernel itself (and for many chipsets, that would require a considerable amount of reverse engineering work!), smartphones bear the Curse of the Modem. In a modern smartphone, modem is often a part of the SoC itself - and it runs some of the biggest and fattest blobs you've ever seen.

Yep, with DMA sometimes. I've heard this same thing on the Pinephone forums iirc during the early years.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#60

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #4

Ultimately, I don't think the most important challenge is in binary firmware blobs, but the software which people depend upon to run their lives. What does it matter if you can run a completely free software stack on your phone, if your bank software (or your required government ID, as is looking depressingly likely) requires you to run a Big Tech approved phone OS? Perhaps the FSF can't do much about that, but that…

Well you're partially right. After all, the "big tech approved phone OS" is actually Linux, so just having a free OS isn't enough to prevent it from being co-opted and turned into a locked-down platform.

But the partially wrong part is, we can make our own platform. PCs let you install and run any software you want, because it's an open platform. If we make an open platform smartphone that can compete on features with the closed behemoths, and that then becomes popular enough, then banks may offer apps on that.

But this is tricky too. Linux already has issues getting official support from corporations. We'd need our open platform to be compatible with the closed ones, so that it's easy for banks to run their apps on our open platform. There are already ways around this, like virtual machines to run Android, or other methods. But the closed behemoths may try and end-run around this, like DRM. So we'll still need to advocate for our rights and compatibility.

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