Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 668 posts

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#51

Post by jaccola »

q3k wrote: post #37
tartoran wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it pretty much, not sure why it took so long to come to this realization. Was it greed that caused a warp in rational and common sense?

Just the religious belief that The Free Market will solve everything on its own and there should be no attempt to interfere with it.

I never understood this, I believe very strongly in the free market, but only where there is a free market. Of course you can let the free market run free up to the border of e.g. the US but surely it won't solve international trade since many countries do not have a free market. Unless we agree some international rules such that the boundary of the free market "sandbox" becomes the earths borders.

It's why I also think it is possible to hold a pro-free-market pro-tariff position simultaneously without contradiction. Tariffs could be used to "level set" manipulation from foreign governments and make the incoming goods behave as if they were not manipulated (thus also reducing the incentive to manipulate in the first place).

Not sure this is how tariffs are being used in reality.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#52

Post by markus_zhang »

Time to quote one of my favourite lines in the Godfather franchise. Probably totally unrelated.

“We gladly put you at the helm of our little fleet, but our ships must all sail in the same direction. Otherwise, who can say how long your stay with us will last. It's not personal, it's only business. You should know, Godfather”

— The late venerable Don Lucchesi

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#53

Post by markus_zhang »

walkabout wrote: post #45
tmnvix wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used. Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking - for the first time - their own legislation from the 50's to ban rare earth exports for military uses.

Probably not an awesome sign if multiple actors are invoking never-used laws that were created while WWII was still fresh on everyone's mind.

Let’s hope this one is still cold.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#54

Post by dylan604 »

dgfitz wrote: post #47
dylan604 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you say what the minerals were actually used for though is the question I always have in these types of situations. There are multiple uses of the minerals. Since I've now gotten a literal boat load of the minerals from you, I can use those minerals on other things which now frees up my personal source of minerals on the things you didn't want them used in. In the spirit of the agreement, I'm in full complian…

Are you tracking that harvesting REM is a nasty business with a lot of “don’t look” environmental impacts? As such, most countries don’t do it, or have an infrastructure for it.

https://rareearthexchanges.com/best-rare-earth-mining-compan...

Plenty of US companies ready and willing. They've finally gotten an administration that is of like mind on screw the environment and dig dig dig.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#55

Post by [deleted] »

constantcrying wrote: post #35
Longlius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And which firms in China are controlled by European entities?

There are many companies which the Chinese government could target in retaliation. In China foreign companies are usually minority partners in some ventures with some Chinese company.

[deleted]

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#56

Post by Denvercoder9 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #20
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

So what just happened logistically? I assume this is an entirely independent Chinese company without some Dutch sponsor or something. That conforms to local regulations. But now The Dutch government says "we have this new power over you" and that is that. With the consequence presumably being export control on dutch tech, banning from their market, etc? Or were there any more hooks planted that make it easier to forc…

> I assume this is an entirely independent Chinese company without some Dutch sponsor or something.

It's not, it's a Dutch company, formed according to Dutch law, with headquarters in the Netherlands, that was bought by another Chinese company a few years ago.

Dutch law sets rules on how any company, but especially public companies (so-called naamloze vennootschappen) must be governed. Even if you own all the shares, by law you don't have unlimited and unchecked power in the company, you have to abide by governance rules.

Seemingly simultaneously with the government order, a suit was brought to the court enforcing these laws (the Ondernemingskamer) alledging that the CEO and owner were not abiding by them. The court documents are a bit weird to me as a non-lawyer, with Nexperia named as both plaintiff and defendant, so I'm not sure who brought it, but it might've been the government, who are named as a party.

The court agreed that the suit could have merit, and as an interim measure while the legal proceedings play out, has suspended the CEO and named a temporary director. It also suspended the authority of the owners over their shares (except for one), and assigned a trustee to manage them temporarily. The court did not actually rule on the contents of the suit yet, it only issued interim conservatory measures. We'll likely hear more about how the suit plays out over the next few months.

An interesting matter of contention in the suit is that the CEO/owner want the CLO to be suspended, while the other side asks the court to prohibit firing of the CLO. I presume there has been a conflict in the board, either leading to or caused by the government order.

The court documents are public by the way (in Dutch, obviously): https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/resultaat?zoekterm=nexperi...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#57

Post by miohtama »

Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Could be worse. Could be TikTok and threat to national security.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#58

Post by tnt128 »

rdl wrote: post #46

I don't understand why this suddenly happened (except if asked by the USG in response to the recent scare/reality over rare earths). The 50% ownership by a sanctioned entity was a reality for a while, and was an issue as soon as the purchase. This didn't change recently. So, this action should have been part of the pre-purchase review (CFIUS in the US...I assume there is an equivalent in China). On the face of it, th…

Negotiation leverage. Had they prevent the purchase in the first place, they won’t have anythings to negotiate now.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#59

Post by bigbadfeline »

echelon wrote: post #40
Doxin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, but the dutch government has agency. It's not impossible for US pressure to be a factor, but I think it's more likely the management of the company was planning to move production to china or something like that. That'd (rightly!) spook the government into some quick action, especially given the political climate around Russia seemingly not being content with having their war confined to Ukraine. U…

> Unfortunately we seem to be living in interesting times. China played a remarkably smart game. We let it happen. People have been telling us for twenty years that this would happen and nobody listened until it was almost too late.

Either way, it cannot be stopped, China will develop independent technology sector because they can and they have no other choice. They don't trust the West and cases like this make such attitude understandable.

As soon as China tries to compete with the rich monopolies, the "free market" goes out of the window and becomes "free to do as we tell you".

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#60

Post by dgfitz »

dylan604 wrote: post #54
dgfitz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you tracking that harvesting REM is a nasty business with a lot of “don’t look” environmental impacts? As such, most countries don’t do it, or have an infrastructure for it.

https://rareearthexchanges.com/best-rare-earth-mining-compan... Plenty of US companies ready and willing. They've finally gotten an administration that is of like mind on screw the environment and dig dig dig.

So, you agree?
Post reply on HN