Nostr and ATProto (2024)
shreyanjain.net
Nostr and ATProto (2024)
1–10 of 74 posts
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#2Bummer that all three bluesky links in the intro are dead links now, and the author's bluesky account appears to be deactivated:
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#3Bummer that all three bluesky links in the intro are dead links now, and the author's bluesky account appears to be deactivated: https://bsky.app/profile/shreyanjain.net
By contrast, NOSTR comments continue to work just fine.
Quite telling between centralized vs decentralized environments. NOSTR is indeed more resilient.
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#4Bummer that all three bluesky links in the intro are dead links now, and the author's bluesky account appears to be deactivated: https://bsky.app/profile/shreyanjain.net
By contrast, NOSTR comments continue to work just fine. Quite telling between centralized vs decentralized environments. NOSTR is indeed more resilient.
I'm not sure I would necessarily draw that conclusion.
If the author intentionally deactivated their Bluesky account, does the fact that he can successfully do that on Bluesky lead to the conclusion that it's less resilient?
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
By contrast, NOSTR comments continue to work just fine. Quite telling between centralized vs decentralized environments. NOSTR is indeed more resilient.
I'm not sure I would necessarily draw that conclusion. If the author intentionally deactivated their Bluesky account, does the fact that he can successfully do that on Bluesky lead to the conclusion that it's less resilient?
The comment makes so little sense that it could only be intended as a dumb gotcha from someone who thinks they're fighting in some sort of culture war about the Twitter succession. Ignoring is better than encouraging.
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#6Been thinking about this lately and ultimately, I'm thinking that -- taking into account what we know about "federation" -- both the Nostr and ATProto models are generally pointless because they attack a problem with more complicated tech that must be solved with OR without that tech anyway.
Someone said it really well; if your solution relies on "maybe people will learn about or do new complex thing X" it's just not likely to take off.
But for the sake of argument, let's try going down that road for this. Along the way you'll be communicating with people, building trust, etc etc.
But now YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THE THING YOU'RE trying to optimize for, and for which we already have an extremely resilient model, aka Mastodon-which-is-very-analogous-to-email. At that point, just make a mastodon server or servers with with those people.
It just feels like the smart bet is doing that analogously to email, a model that definitely works, then trying to do the same thing PLUS invent a whole new idea of "take everything with you" at the user level.
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
By contrast, NOSTR comments continue to work just fine. Quite telling between centralized vs decentralized environments. NOSTR is indeed more resilient.
I'm not sure I would necessarily draw that conclusion. If the author intentionally deactivated their Bluesky account, does the fact that he can successfully do that on Bluesky lead to the conclusion that it's less resilient?
I think you've nailed a problem with all of these, they would make "deleting your stuff" HARDER. What's stopping the rogue node from saving all your stuff forever?
I think "trying to make a thing that can work through rogue or stupid nodes" is just prohibitively harder than "work on making nodes more reliable" (which I absolutely grant is extremely hard.)
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#8nostr started as very simple but soon there are like millions of NIPs.
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#9Been thinking about this lately and ultimately, I'm thinking that -- taking into account what we know about "federation" -- both the Nostr and ATProto models are generally pointless because they attack a problem with more complicated tech that must be solved with OR without that tech anyway. Someone said it really well; if your solution relies on "maybe people will learn about or do new complex thing X" it's just not…
I've been doing some exploratory implementation using ATProto and the Bluesky server. It strikes me as a bit over engineered, but I'd take that over Ruby on Rails and Node.js, especially if it needs to turn into a product.
Re: Nostr and ATProto (2024)
#10from an an average developer perspective, nostr is interesting because it's "just" a digitally signed json data structure sent over a websocket. reading the spec [1] for creating a simple nostr client (aka "nip-1"), my average developer brains thinks: i could do that.
i don't get that same feeling when reading atproto or activitypub docs. ultimately, there's a reason why all these protocols get complicated at scale, but in the simple case, nostr is very easy to make a client for and start playing with.
nostr feels like a good example case for gall's law: "a complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked."
[1]: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/01.md