I've only just skimmed this -- won't have time to fully read & listen to it until much later today. But I wanted to bring up something that I didn't see mentioned anywhere in there. You have to charge more. Aside from all of the arguments in terms of value and avoiding pathological customers and so on, there's one more really good reason to charge more: you need the money if you want to be awesome. I've been running…
Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
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Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#32Whilst I agree with the basic thesis of "charge more and compete by providing value". The difficult part for me seems to be finding people who have money they can part with in the first place, you can't really sell somebody on the benefits of something they can't afford. I've recently been trying to pick up some part time freelance work to supplement my income and pick up a wider range of experience. So first stop wa…
1) Communicate a lot, before even thinking about bidding. Many project descriptions are extremely vague, but by asking questions, you can often get the detail you need to put in a sensible bid that will actually meet the client's needs. This has two side effects:
- it weeds out toxic clients. Those who have unrealistic expectations, or simply don't know what they want, will make that obvious during this phase.
- it sets you apart from other bidders. Many of them will simply read the (vague) project description and then put in a bid, without sending so much as a "hello". Whereas, by asking questions and seeking feedback, you've convinced the client that you're capable and focused on getting them the product they want.
2) When you're just starting out and therefore have no ratings/history, it's hard to win a big project. Consider offering to do a small sub-project with quick turnaround, as a proof of ability. My wife's first client had a fairly large project; she offered to do a small bugfix with a quick turnaround for $50, which allowed her to win the larger contract with minimal risk to either her or the client. Once she had one large contract under her belt, other contracts came much more easily, including lots of repeat business.
3) Look for other things you can do to minimize perceived risk. If the site has built in certification tests, take them. If you have your own profile pieces, post them. This both sets you apart from the $7/hour firms, and puts you at least not too far behind the slick looking portfolio guys.
4) Pick up skills to fill in your biggest weaknesses (for example, learn rudimentary design if you haven't yet), and pick up skills to compete with others' big weaknesses (how many freelancers know how to write an in-app billing module on Android? My wife gets a ton of work because she knows how to do that, and seemingly nobody else does.)
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There are definitely people out there with money to spend, who are willing to spend it on you if you can convince them you're the best option. This is the approach that worked for us, though I realize it's unpopular among part of the HN crowd.
A word of caution: this strategy has paid the bills, but we live a fairly low-key lifestyle. We're still one rate hike behind the previous BigCo salary.
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#33Whilst I agree with the basic thesis of "charge more and compete by providing value". The difficult part for me seems to be finding people who have money they can part with in the first place, you can't really sell somebody on the benefits of something they can't afford. I've recently been trying to pick up some part time freelance work to supplement my income and pick up a wider range of experience. So first stop wa…
1) Don't use the freelancer sites. They're markets for lemons. 2) There are a variety of networking mechanisms besides networking events. Anything pitched as a "networking event", explicitly, is going to self-select for people who have nothing better to do than go to networking events. Successful businessmen largely don't go to that sort of place because they have networks . They go to places which promise value to t…
I guess there are a few things at the crux of this.
Having worked on mainly typical "line of business" type software and CMS type systems I've tended to find myself on projects where the number of voices has meant that everything tends towards mediocrity and anything approaching an innovative idea gets shot down immediately.
In other words it's difficult to produce something that you feel proud of and would be happy to show people as an example of your skill.
Also as very much a generalist (everything from server admin to dev to SEO) it's difficult to find an area where I would feel confident speaking as an "expert" on any particular subject.
Perhaps, I would be better off using the time to develop things of my own that people might find useful/interesting and would give me something that I could talk about?
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#34The hardest part of this "charge more" philosophy is finding the clients. For example, I went to see a client yesterday, who knew my daily rate. We had a very positive meeting and I was told "they were glad they'd found the right man for the job". Yet today they stated they could get two developers for the price I was charging and would have to think about hiring me unless I was prepared to negotiate.
I do wonder if maybe the world of freelance developing does have a payment cap, and that to reach the next level we need to sell ourselves as something other than just developers.
Or does making the charge more philosophy work to its full extent in the development game, mean joining big company x, or selling my soul to big company y.
The question I'm asking myself right now is. Would Patio11 be able to charge the same rate as a freelance developer as he does as a "I will help you sell more software" freelance consultant?
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#35Whilst I agree with the basic thesis of "charge more and compete by providing value". The difficult part for me seems to be finding people who have money they can part with in the first place, you can't really sell somebody on the benefits of something they can't afford. I've recently been trying to pick up some part time freelance work to supplement my income and pick up a wider range of experience. So first stop wa…
I build websites , computer software and mobile apps too.... do what? My top tip would be to stop talking about building web sites or mobile apps. Instead talk about what those web sites and mobile apps are doing for the businesses you built them for. When you have that mom and pop operation who are stressed out about meeting their mortgage payments you need to sell them something that will reduce their stress. You'r…
The issue really is that you can't charge high rates to these people simply because they probably don't have that kind of money sitting in the bank.
In reality most of the gains you could give to these people by improving their online marketing through various means are going to provide more benefits in the long term than the short term.
That's a difficult sell to businesses that are worried about short term survival.
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#36I've only just skimmed this -- won't have time to fully read & listen to it until much later today. But I wanted to bring up something that I didn't see mentioned anywhere in there. You have to charge more. Aside from all of the arguments in terms of value and avoiding pathological customers and so on, there's one more really good reason to charge more: you need the money if you want to be awesome. I've been running…
"I think you're trying to do both business and charity at the same time, and that doesn't really work I think."
You need to charge a certain set of clients more to afford to do the rest for free. Business and charity can exist side-by-side but they can't really be combined. Charge more for 75% of who you help, then be really picky about the remaining 25%. You'll have the same warm heart and be a lot more sane. Happy workers work better and that helps everyone.
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Don't use the freelancer sites. They're markets for lemons. 2) There are a variety of networking mechanisms besides networking events. Anything pitched as a "networking event", explicitly, is going to self-select for people who have nothing better to do than go to networking events. Successful businessmen largely don't go to that sort of place because they have networks . They go to places which promise value to t…
Thanks for the reply, certainly some food for thought there. I guess there are a few things at the crux of this. Having worked on mainly typical "line of business" type software and CMS type systems I've tended to find myself on projects where the number of voices has meant that everything tends towards mediocrity and anything approaching an innovative idea gets shot down immediately. In other words it's difficult to…
This is a common worry in our field, even for people who are absolutely drop-dead world-class experts in things! You do not have to be absolutely drop-dead world-class expert in things to teach hugely valuable things to people, because the overwhelming majority of people are not experts at $FILL_IN_SUBJECT.
You do server admin? Hypothetical example: Have you ever administered a MySQL server? Have you written a backup strategy for one? Once? Jiggy2011, you know more than I do about a subject which very nearly cost me $$$$ and a heart attack last Thursday. Would I be listening to hear you talk about MySQL backup strategies? Heck yes. I burn with need for that right now. Are there other people who know it better than you? Yes. Do I know who they are? No. I know almost nothing about this field, which includes not knowing the straightforward paths to learning more about this field. You know this subject better than I do, maybe you could tell me who they are, but you can probably also tell me that they're busy building Facebook and since you aren't you're the one actually talking about this stuff.
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#38As a freelance developer myself, and thanks to Patio11, I've always had the charge more mantra firmly placed at the front of my head. So it's a little disheartening to hear on the basis of what was said in this conversation, that I'm still selling myself short. Without the advice I've read here, I doubt I'd of lasted the four months I have so far... The hardest part of this "charge more" philosophy is finding the cli…
I charge the same rate for software development as I do for making graphite etchings on paper in aesthetically pleasing patterns. Consulting clients buy both of these things from me, in isolation or combination, on a regular basis. So if that's the way you're asking the question, "Yes, I could."
If the question is "If you brought nothing to the table other than the ability to write Ruby code, would you be able to charge $YOUR_RATE for writing Ruby code?", I think I'll go with "I can guarantee you that someone gets that much for writing Ruby, and probably more besides, but it probably wouldn't be me" and "Wait wait wait, you seem to want to sell yourself as a commodity coder, don't sell yourself as a commodity coder, down that path lines madness."
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#39This is the 2nd part of the interview mini-series with Ramit Sethi on starting a consulting business, though we both talk products in this interview as well. I'm happy to answer questions, as always. P.S. I normally try to space out publishing things, to avoid a) reader fatigue on my favorite topics and b) imposing on HN goodwill by showing up on the front page too often. That said, the next two weeks are going to se…
Re: Why Your Customers Would Be Happier If You Charged More
#40I've only just skimmed this -- won't have time to fully read & listen to it until much later today. But I wanted to bring up something that I didn't see mentioned anywhere in there. You have to charge more. Aside from all of the arguments in terms of value and avoiding pathological customers and so on, there's one more really good reason to charge more: you need the money if you want to be awesome. I've been running…
To piggyback on jd above... "I think you're trying to do both business and charity at the same time, and that doesn't really work I think." You need to charge a certain set of clients more to afford to do the rest for free. Business and charity can exist side-by-side but they can't really be combined. Charge more for 75% of who you help, then be really picky about the remaining 25%. You'll have the same warm heart an…