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Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

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Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#61
post #34

I've been considering "de-enterprising" my home storage stack to save power and noise and gain something a bit more modular. Currently I'm running on an old NAS 1U machine that I bought on eBay for about $300, with a raidz2 of 12x 18TB drives. I have yet to find a good way to get nearly that much storage without going enterprise or spending an absolute fortune. I'm always interested in these DIY NAS builds, but they…

> How do you store ~100 TB of content with room to grow without a wide NAS?

In the cloud (S3) or on offline (unpowered HDDs or tapes or optical media) I suppose. Most people just don't store that much content.

> So far none of this seems to solve the problem that is solved quite elegantly by the 1U enterprise box... if only you don't look at the power bill.

What kind of power bill are you talking about? I'd expect the drives to be about 10W each steady state (more when spinning up), so 180W. I'd expect a lower-power motherboard/CPU running near idle to be another 40W (or less). If you have a 90% efficient PSU, then maybe 250W in total.

If you're way more than that, you can probably swap out the old enterprisey motherboard/RAM/CPU/PSU for something more modern and do a lot better. Maybe in the same case.

I'm learning 1U is pretty unpleasant though. E.g. I tried an ASRock B650M-HDV/M.2 in a Supermicro CSE-813M. A standard IO panel is higher than 1U. If I remove the IO panel, the motherboard does fit...but the VRM heatsink also was high enough that the top case bows a bit when I put it on. I guess you can get smaller third party VRM heat sinks, but that's another thing to deal with. The CPU cooler options are limited (the Dynatron A42 works, but it's loud when the CPU draws a lot of power). 40mm case fans are also quite loud to move the required airflow. You can buy noctuas or whatever, but they won't really keep it cool. The ones that actually do spin very fast and so are very loud. You must have noticed this too, although maybe you have a spot for the machine where you don't hear the noise all the time.

I'm trying 2U now. I bought and am currently setting up an Innovision AS252-A06 chassis: 8 3.5" hot swap bays, 2U, 520mm depth. (Of course you can have a lot more drives if you go to 2.5" drives, give up hot swap, and/or have room for a deeper chassis.) Less worry about if stuff will fit, more room for airflow without noise.

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#62
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RAID is much different. You can try it over USB, you won't have a good time. TrueNAS is primarily talking about RAID users.

Yes I should have specified that this advice is specific to RAID configurations in NAS applications. If you're occasionally copying data to an external USB drive, that's totally fine. That's what they were designed for. The issue is that they were not designed for continuous use, or much more demanding applications like rebuilding/resilvering a drive. It's during these applications that issues occur, which is a doubl…

YMMV. I have a 4-drive 20TB mdraid10 across two different $50 USB3.0 2-drive enclosures, I've read petabytes off this array with years of uptime and absolutely zero problems. And it runs on one of those $300 off brand NUCs. The 2.5G NIC is the bottleneck on reads.

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#63
post #19

I was about to buy a NAS. I find the idea of using an old laptop instead interesting. Especially since it comes with UPS built in. The author is using a ThinkPad T430. Any experiences?

I don't use a laptop, but I use something fairly adjacent: the Beelink SER6 (https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-4-75GHz-PCIe4-0-Supports-HDMI...), which is basically a gaming laptop converted into a small desktop. For the most part, it has actually been pretty great. It's quiet, has a CPU that is much better than I expected, and a decent enough GPU to do hardware transcoding for Jellyfin without much issue.

I use USB chassis of hard drives to work as the "NAS" part, and it works fairly well, and this box is also my router (using a 10 GbE thunderbolt adapter) though my biggest issue comes with large updates in NixOS.

For reasons that are still not completely clear to me, when I do a very large system update (rebuilding Triton-llvm for Immich seems to really do it), the internal network will consistently cut out until I reboot the machine. I can log in through the external interface with Tailscale and my phone, so the machine itself is fine, but for whatever reason the internal network will die.

And that's kind of the price you pay for using a non-server to do server work. It will generally work pretty well, but I find that it does require a bit more babysitting than a rack mount server did.

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#64
post #19

I was about to buy a NAS. I find the idea of using an old laptop instead interesting. Especially since it comes with UPS built in. The author is using a ThinkPad T430. Any experiences?

For me it was important to have ECC RAM and laptops pretty much never have that. My personal recommendation is an old IBM/Lenovo workstation tower as the base. I bought one for $35 on eBay and added $40 of RAM (32GB). A $10 UPS from Goodwill with a $25 battery from Amazon, and whatever hard drives you want. I run Ubuntu and ZFS on it but next time would probably opt for FreeBSD for a nicer OS.

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#65
post #16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between used as in I just bought this hard drive and have used it for a week in my home server, and used as in refurbished drive after years of hard labor in someone else's server farm

Enterprise drives are way different than anything consumer based. I wouldn't trust a consumer drive used for 2 years, but a true enteprise drive has like millions of hours left of it's life. Quote from Toshiba's paper on this. [1] Hard disk drives for enterprise server and storage usage (Enterprise Performance and Enterprise Capacity Drives) have MTTF of up to 2 million hours, at 5 years warranty, 24/7 operation. Ope…

> drive has like millions of hours left of it's life.

It doesn't apply for the single drive, only for a large number of drives. E.g. if you have 100000 drives (2.4 million hours MTTF) in a server building with the required environmental conditions and maximum workload, be prepared to replace a drive once a day in average.

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#66
post #31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official TrueNAS docs recommend against using USB drives [1]. My understanding is that between the USB controller, flaky connectors and cables, and usb-to-sata bridges of varying quality, there are just too many unknowns to guarantee a reliable experience. For example, I’ve heard that some usb-to-sata controllers will drop commands and not report SMART data. That said, there are of course many people on the inter…

Been using like 7 external usb drives with 40-50tb total for a few years with no issues. Not raid, just backing up drive to drive. No controller or drive issues. Mix of seagate and wd 8/12/16gb. I hate blanket recommendations like this by docs. To me, it just sounds like some guy had a problem a few times and now it's canon. It's like saying "avoid Seagate because their 3tb drives sucked." Well they did, but now they…

Is that with ZFS or something else?

Mainly I wouldn't do it because of there's space and SATA ports it seems stupid. Hotter. Worse HW.

Can't really see much good reason to do it tbh except it's in a small hot case which is relatively easy to move around. Maybe if you do occasionally backups and you don't care about scrubbing and redundancy? Otherwise why not shuck them and throw them in a case?

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#67
post #19

I was about to buy a NAS. I find the idea of using an old laptop instead interesting. Especially since it comes with UPS built in. The author is using a ThinkPad T430. Any experiences?

I own this and it's worth it's weight in gold https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/A2SDi-H-T...

Yes. It's pricey but it's never been a problem. It can connect like 12 HDDs with 256GB ram and has 10GBe and runs at a tiny TDP. Has IPMI. Fits in a tiny case.

The only issue I had with this motherboard was that it was difficult to find someone who sold it. Love it

Also I don't see the built-in UPS. The external drives still use external power

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#68
post #34

I've been considering "de-enterprising" my home storage stack to save power and noise and gain something a bit more modular. Currently I'm running on an old NAS 1U machine that I bought on eBay for about $300, with a raidz2 of 12x 18TB drives. I have yet to find a good way to get nearly that much storage without going enterprise or spending an absolute fortune. I'm always interested in these DIY NAS builds, but they…

Nah buy the right enterprise gear instead

https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/A2SDi-H-T...

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#69
post #68
post #34

I've been considering "de-enterprising" my home storage stack to save power and noise and gain something a bit more modular. Currently I'm running on an old NAS 1U machine that I bought on eBay for about $300, with a raidz2 of 12x 18TB drives. I have yet to find a good way to get nearly that much storage without going enterprise or spending an absolute fortune. I'm always interested in these DIY NAS builds, but they…

Nah buy the right enterprise gear instead https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/A2SDi-H-T...

I'd really dig a version of this with a Ryzen AI chip and 128gb of ram.

I'm moving to Lenovo tiny m75q series for now due to low idle power and heat generated.

Re: Testing two 18 TB white label SATA hard drives from datablocks.dev

#70

What exactly are these "white label drives"? Aren't these just normal seagate exos drives with SMART information wiped and labels removed? i.e. just a worse used drive.

Trying to think of reasons why the manufacturer wouldn't want their name on them and none of them are good. And for not even much of a discount.
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