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What are imaginary numbers?

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Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I proved the wrong thing. Correct proof is in post below.

Can you please complete your proof? How do I go from 1.(-1) = -1 to (-1)*(-1)=(+1)?

Shoot. I lost sight of the goal. Sorry.

a·0 = 0 for all numbers a

Thus it is true that

–1·0 = 0

Replace 0 on left hand side with (–1 + 1) to get

–1·(–1+1) = 0

Now use the distributive property

–1·(–1) + (–1)·1 = 0

Keeping in mind that 1·a = a for all numbers gives us

–1(–1) + (–1) = 0

Thus –1(–1) is a number such that when added to –1 gives 0. Hence –1(–1) must be the opposite of –1 which is 1.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#42
post #4

Here is an even better discussion on the same topic, and the HN thread from last year: http://betterexplained.com/articles/a-visual-intuitive-guide... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2712575 One great conclusion from this approach is how intuitive it becomes to understand the square root of i . I always thought you'd need another dimension to describe that, and another dimension for the square root of that unit,…

Do kids not learn this in 8th grade any more? I'm seriously not trying to be snarky, I just can't think of a way to write that question that sounds unsnarky. I thought everyone learned about the polar representation of complex numbers.

(Author of the above article)

I learned the polar representation, yep, but didn't connect as i as an "rotation operation" that took you from one dimension to the other. For all I knew, having i be 2-dimensional was like saying "We can represent condiments by having an axis for ketchup and and an axis for mustard".

It was 2 random quantities represented as an (x,y) pair, without the notion that they were deeply connected.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#43
post #34

Can someone please also do this for: 1. Matrices, especially matrix multiplication. Unlike matrix addition, multiplication is defined in a very weird way. I think I understand where it is coming from -- defining it that way allows representing and solving linear equations. More insights, however, would help. 2. Dot and cross products. E.g., the magnitude of dot product in 3D is a.b.cos(theta), while for cross product…

I'll try to give some short pointers.

1. Matrices represent linear functions between finite-dimensional vector spaces. That is, if you have a function f from V to W that satisfies f(ax + by) = af(x) + bf(y), then there is a matrix A such that f(x) = Ax, and vice versa.

Once you understand that, try to figure out what happens to those matrices when you compose functions. In other words, when you define h(x) = g(f(x)) (assuming that f and g are linear maps that can be composed in this way), then given the matrices for g and f, what will the matrix for h look like? You will end up with exactly the rules for matrix multiplication.

The reason that you call this result "multiplication" is simply that it behaves very much like the multiplication that you are used to from the reals. In particular, you get a ring on square matrices, with (matrix) addition and multiplication that satisfy a distributive law.

2. I personally think that those angles are a bit of a red herring. In particular, the cross product generalizes in a somewhat more complicated way to higher dimensions, and then you have to talk about determinants instead of angles. That would take too much time and space to explain properly here.

3. Set and the "element-of" relation are not defined in the usual sense. They are indeed simply assumed, and you just postulate the properties that they need to satisfy, a.k.a. the axioms of set theory. It's a way of thinking that takes some getting used to, but as an analogy, try to work through Euclid. He doesn't define points or lines, either, but only postulates properties that they need to satisfy.

4. Because 0.9999... is usually interpreted as a real number, and not as an infinite sequence of characters. As a real number, 0.9999... has no meaning except as a limit, and hence they must be equal. As infinite sequences of characters, 0.9999... and 1 are of course different, but that's not how we usually interpret them.

If you think that this is in your way when understanding Cantor's infinities, perhaps you should try to use the diagonalisation argument on infinite bit strings instead of on real numbers. That way, those kinds of subtleties simply do not arise.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#44
post #27

I don't think I quite followed the step where he/she writes "i^4 = 1", where they are relating rotation and the natural numbers. The RHS is theoretically the concept "identity under rotation". Why should it be be the same as the natural number 1? Maybe I missed something in the explanation. Can somebody explain?

There is an implicit start from the unit vector 1. i (really 1 * i) is a 90° rotation of that. i^4 is four 90° rotations. Rotate anything four times and you've rotated it 360°, ending up where you started at 1.

Ok, thx. I think I understand now.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#45
post #34

Can someone please also do this for: 1. Matrices, especially matrix multiplication. Unlike matrix addition, multiplication is defined in a very weird way. I think I understand where it is coming from -- defining it that way allows representing and solving linear equations. More insights, however, would help. 2. Dot and cross products. E.g., the magnitude of dot product in 3D is a.b.cos(theta), while for cross product…

Im going to let someone give a better response for some of these, but i will touch on a few.

2) The dot product can be thought of the projection of one vector onto another, or: If i shine a light directly at one vector with the 2nd vector in between, how long will the shadow of the 2nd vector in the system be? Do an image search for dot product to see this, and it will become clear (if you know basic trig) why the equation is ABcos(theta).

The cross product is defined as having a magnitude equal to the area of the parallelogram that the vectors create. So have both vectors start at the same point, and then mirror them to make a parallelogram (see wiki on parallelogram).

4) How are the different? If you take 1-0.9999.... = x, what is x exactly? You can't tell me the difference. This is essentially how limits work.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#46
post #34

Can someone please also do this for: 1. Matrices, especially matrix multiplication. Unlike matrix addition, multiplication is defined in a very weird way. I think I understand where it is coming from -- defining it that way allows representing and solving linear equations. More insights, however, would help. 2. Dot and cross products. E.g., the magnitude of dot product in 3D is a.b.cos(theta), while for cross product…

For #2 and to some extent #1, see the earlier link I posted about Geometric Algebra. For #1, you want to find a good linear algebra book or resource. I never watched them, but I’ve heard that Gil Strang’s MIT 18.06 lectures are good. http://www.youtube.com/course?list=ECE7DDD91010BC51F8

For #3, try to find Halmos’s book Naive Set Theory. It has a very nice and accessible explanations.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#47

I have mixed feelings about this explanation. On the one hand, the mathematician inside of me is raging "this is neither specific, nor rigorous!" In my opinion, this definition is as close to useless as a mathematical definition can be, since the person who has this (and only this) will be hard pressed to answer any other questions involving complex numbers. For example, what is multiplication by i+1? Without further…

I would argue something is better than nothing. And if this gets people to start using the tool then maybe they will start to hit the cases where the loss of utility matters, and then this can be the source of inspiration to actually tough out the technical inspiration. Probably a long shot in general but it worked that way for me.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#48
post #34

Can someone please also do this for: 1. Matrices, especially matrix multiplication. Unlike matrix addition, multiplication is defined in a very weird way. I think I understand where it is coming from -- defining it that way allows representing and solving linear equations. More insights, however, would help. 2. Dot and cross products. E.g., the magnitude of dot product in 3D is a.b.cos(theta), while for cross product…

I'll try to give some short pointers. 1. Matrices represent linear functions between finite-dimensional vector spaces. That is, if you have a function f from V to W that satisfies f(ax + by) = af(x) + bf(y), then there is a matrix A such that f(x) = Ax, and vice versa. Once you understand that, try to figure out what happens to those matrices when you compose functions. In other words, when you define h(x) = g(f(x))…

Thanks!!

>> then you have to talk about determinants instead of angles

I certainly never heard this before. (I know how to calculate determinants, but never quite developed intuition around them.) Can you please say some more on this? :-)

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#49
A complex "number" (don't think of it as of a number! think of it like you would think of a vector, group, ring or any other abstract structure) is just an ordered pair of real numbers that behaves in a certain predefined way when being added to another complex number or multiplied by it. For an introduction, to avoid unnecessary confusion, it is best to write such "numbers" as ordered pairs using the notation: (a,b). The definitions for the operations are the following:

  (a,b)+(c,d) = (a+c,b+d)
  (a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c,b-d)
  (a,b)*(c,d) = (ac-bd,bc+ad)
It is useful to have separate names for each part of a complex number, so the a in (a,b) is called the real part, and the b the imaginary part, but for now think about those names as completely devoid of any meaning. Now, observe that under the above definition:

  (a,0)+(c,0) = (a+c,0)
  (a,0)-(c,0) = (a-c,0)
  (a,0)*(c,0) = (ac,0)
But those are, if you consider only the real parts of the complex numbers, ordinary operations on the real numbers! An example consequence of this is that we can take some equation concerning real numbers like:

  2*x + 5 = 21
and write it down in terms of complex "numbers":

  (2,0)*x + (5,0) = (21,0)
Since as we have seen pairs of the form (a,0) behave just like real numbers, we have not changed the meaning of the equation, hence we are free to solve it using the rules of complex algebra and if we happen to arrive at another number of the form (a,0), we can take out the real part of it, plug it into the original equation in terms of real numbers and it is certain to be a valid solution.

This is one of the two properties that makes the use of complex "numbers" fruitful. At the other one we arrive if we now look at "numbers" that are NOT of the form (a,0), for example at a curious property of (0,1):

  (0,1)*(0,1) = (-1,0)
So, in the domain of complex "numbers", the "number" that corresponds to the real number -1, happens to have the equivalent of what we for real numbers call the "square root". We just talk about the "square root", but it is a different operation when we are talking about complex numbers.

Those two properties combined allowed mathematicians to tackle some problems that previously did not have a solution. One example is the problem of finding a solution to cubic equations. The math here gets more complicated, but basically it turns out that by writing cubic equations in real numbers in complex numbers instead, you can find general formulas in terms of complex numbers for finding all the possible solutions, and as we have discussed if applying such a formula in the end yields a number of the form (a,0), it is guaranteed to be a valid solution for the original real equation. Google for "cubic equations cardano" to see the details.

Now, this going back and forth between complex and real numbers is so useful, that for the purpose of brevity mathematicians sacrificed intelligibility and introduced sort of a shorthand notation of the form: a + bi, so instead of writing (0,1) as we did above, we just write i, instead of (5,0) we just write 5, and instead of (1,2) we write 1 + 2i. This is purely a trick, there is nothing magical about the "i", it is just a "dummy" variable that allows convenient carrying out of the operations with pairs described above in the manner reassembling ordinary high-school algebra we all know and love.

All this is maybe a bit elementary, but I think this is the part most people fail to understand and because of this start treating complex numbers as something mysterious. There is in fact nothing mysterious about them, you have to boil every application you see of them to the above and then you will get a clear understanding of what is happening and why they are useful. Points on the plane happen to be a model for complex numbers with rotation corresponding to multiplication and so forth, this is of course very interesting, but I feel an introduction to the topic should start with what I have just tried to explain.

Re: What are imaginary numbers?

#50

Everyone should learn some of the tools of Geometric Algebra sometime in high school, and it would save a whole lot of confusion. http://geocalc.clas.asu.edu/pdf/OerstedMedalLecture.pdf

It seems like an increasing number of people are mentioning Geometric Algebra and everyone that likes it seems to _really_ like it.

It is getting to the point where I am going to have to learn it just to see what the hype is about. (I love being able to say that there is "hype" around a field of mathematics)

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