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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#201

Post by lo_zamoyski »

sillyfluke wrote: post #159
dkga wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Life is such a precious random occurrence that failing to protect it in the face [dementia|physical disabilities|etc] is the real tragedy.

As I mentioned in a another comment, framing it as "how one is remembered" is leading to pointless tangents in this thread. The important point is this: are you causing emotional, psychological, physical distress in the real world to those you care about when you have this disease? Yes or no. That's what I care about. Whether they are able to remember me well despite that, or poorly because of that should be complete…

That’s irrelevant here. What is relevant is that we have a contempt for human life and a lack of charity. The teacher was not at fault for his condition. We should learn magnanimity.

Sure, we can think about how the burdens of caring for our family can be lessened as they age, or how we may help reduce that burden for our family, but family does have the duty to care for its members, and to place such considerations above the intrinsic value of human life is very sad indeed.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#202

Post by andsoitis »

Thorrez wrote: post #193
Freak_NL wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. Where? This is a thing which always pops up in these debates because it is a deep-rooted fear, but are there countries where this is a thing?

Barbara Wagner [1]: >Her last hope was a $4,000-a-month drug that her doctor prescribed for her, but the insurance company refused to pay. >What the Oregon Health Plan did agree to cover, however, were drugs for a physician-assisted death. Those drugs would cost about $50. Randy Stroup [2]: > Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's re…

Offered != recommended.

However, the price difference is probably a strong incentive.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#203

Post by e40 »

em500 wrote: post #62

I'm surprised and fascinated that this is apparently legal in Switzerland. The Netherlands, famous for allowing assisted suicide, has pretty strict criteria for this[1]. In particular, the physician must "be satisfied that the patient’s suffering is unbearable, with no prospect of improvement", which from this article sounds far from the case here. [1] https://www.government.nl/topics/euthanasia/is-euthanasia-al...

In California two doctors must certify the person has less than six months to live. A friend of my mother just took the option due to terminal cancer.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#204

Post by [deleted] »

firesteelrain wrote: post #138
Freak_NL wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem pleasant for the person themself either. Constant frustration, gaps in your memory growing ever larger, disorientation, loss — periodically augmented by brief flickers of recollection of what you used to be — and yet no one can legally end your misery, because you can likely no longer unequivocally consent to euthanasia or assisted suicide, even if you explicitly signed a declaration that you did not…

It’s still absurd despite what you say that we are implying that we should euthanize another human because they have become difficult to manage due to illness. Where do we draw the line?

[deleted]

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#205

Post by hhthrowaway1230 »

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

Sounds like LinkedIn story to me. Written by claude trying to drive a point home.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#206

Post by pell »

kranke155 wrote: post #80
WA wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but if you are in that state, you probably don’t give a shit and everybody else seems to be the problem. So how do you solve this? When dementia isn’t too far progressed, your life seems to be still worthwhile to live and once the dementia gets worse, it’s too late to realize this.

I read that in some societies, if you ended up not being able to feed yourself, they would bring you to your favorite tree and leave you there. If you ended back in camp you’d be welcomed. If you didn’t, that was your end. I found that remarkably comforting and peaceful.

If you don’t make it back you would die of starvation and lack of water. These are some of the worst ways of dying. What do you find comforting and peaceful about it? The person has been abandoned by their community and could suffer terribly for days.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#207

Post by kranke155 »

razeh wrote: post #194
raffael_de wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they'll treat you with a daily oil bath and feed you tender coconut water ... until few days later your kidney's blow out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalaikoothal

I think people tend to underestimate the risks in allowing suicide —- here’s a blurb from the linked article: However, social acceptance may lead to more egregious abuses: the issue gained a higher profile in early 2010, when an 80-year-old man escaped after discovering his intended fate and heard his family members discussing how they were going to "share" his lands, and took refuge in a relative's home.

Using exceptions to make rules is dumb.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#208

Post by dotnet00 »

joelwilliamson wrote: post #198
dotnet00 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a cruel perspective, implying that he'd be better off dead, for what, 3 years of inconvenience to his community, despite the previous 80 years being spent contributing positively to it? You even literally show that he isn't solely remembered for those last 3 years of his life. We owe people like that care and understanding, not murder framed as mercy. It's always so painful to see old people around who a…

He’d be dead either way, the question is if having those three years were a net improvement to his life

By that logic we should invoke the death penalty for everyone who has been sentenced to life in prison and has exhausted all their appeals, or any seniors convicted of a crime.

Their life probably won't improve anymore, and in the latter case they're going to die in a few years anyway, so might as well just lighten the load on society?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#209

Post by ZpJuUuNaQ5 »

mynameisash wrote: post #200
ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

Do you also not care how people think of you now?

Of course I don't. Life is a short, temporary experience, and I don't want to spend this time wondering what others think of me. It does not matter at all. I am nothing, just a briefly conscious lump of cells. I will die and turn to dust, just like about 100 billion of others before me. Nothing that I say, think, dream, experience, do, or how I act or look like will ever matter.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#210

Post by kranke155 »

lukas099 wrote: post #128
kranke155 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating that you think someone with dementia would be suffering more from hunger then from their condition sapping away at them.

If I was starving to death, the acute sensation of hunger would override everything else in my mind.

You ever hung out with someone in deep dementia ?
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