Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

bluewin.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 655 posts

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#161

Post by Noaidi »

supportengineer wrote: post #120
ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you. I completely agree that the disease is horrible, but your conclusion is bizarre. When you are in that condition, how anyone views you is the least of your worries.

Is your position that you don’t personally care how people remember you?

Many people think badly about the mentally ill act when they are suffering through an episode. Should they be allowed to die by suicide because what people think of them after they come out of psychosis? Should embarrassment be the bar we are setting for suicide?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#162

Post by rpdillon »

nicoburns wrote: post #140
rkomorn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily agree with this take but I'd say it's probably because we're only willing to let people who are close to death "make a mistake." Eg maybe a 16 year old who wants to end their otherwise healthy life might, 20 years later, be glad they didn't. That seems less likely with someone who is almost certainly going to die (and probably painfully to boot) "soon".

> maybe a 16 year old who wants to end their otherwise healthy life might, 20 years later, be glad they didn't. Equally, they might spend decades of their life in misery wishing that they had been able to.

You're correct, and I'm generally in favor of the right to die.

I watched a documentary where they interviewed a bunch of people who attempted suicide and talked to them about the entire experience and mental state. Out of the maybe ten that they interviewed, only one said that he wished it had worked. That doesn't mean it's only 10% though... they didn't get to interview the ones that succeeded.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#164

Post by dotnet00 »

cwillu wrote: post #149
firesteelrain wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still absurd despite what you say that we are implying that we should euthanize another human because they have become difficult to manage due to illness. Where do we draw the line?

You can quite easily draw a line that society does not get to force someone to live a tormented existence in spite of their prior declaration that they do not want to be tormented. “It shouldn't be that way” is not an excuse to torture people through your moralizing indifference to the fact that it is that way.

The entire issue they're pointing to is that deciding that someone's existence is sufficiently tormented is difficult and morally fraught.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#165

Post by rpdillon »

hypeatei wrote: post #91
michaelt wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many western countries make dying slowly with Alzheimer’s very expensive, by the standards of normal families. Between doctors, nurses and lawyers you can burn through a million bucks in five years easily. And most families don’t have a million bucks cash to spare. On the other hand, if they die after six months, instead of after 5 years? The family doesn’t lose the farm.

> Between doctors, nurses and lawyers you can burn through a million bucks in five years easily That would indicate there is a financial incentive in keeping them alive , no? The "incentive" from the family's perspective, if they're that cold-blooded, doesn't make sense because they could just... not take care of that person.

Not taking care of your mother while she's dying of Alzheimer's is not as easy as you might think.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#166

Post by dotnet00 »

pflenker wrote: post #24
WA wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but if you are in that state, you probably don’t give a shit and everybody else seems to be the problem. So how do you solve this? When dementia isn’t too far progressed, your life seems to be still worthwhile to live and once the dementia gets worse, it’s too late to realize this.

You could express your wishes about how you would like to be treated in advance, while you are still clear in the head. That’s already possible for other situations, like when you are braindead and entirely dependent on machines to keep you alive, with no chance of recovery.

Being braindead is pretty different from having Alzheimers. How do we account for people who change their minds? Do we just forcibly murder them anyway?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#167

Post by Noaidi »

To me, Daniel Kahneman humiliated himself by choosing suicide (if he was in a sound state of mind to make that decision). He was a scared, little old man. He made an assumption that his life was "obviously no longer worth living", how little he thought of life is pathetic.

Now he could have been depressed after his wife died and was just lying to himself that this was his own, autonomous, decision. Depression can do that to you, it can make you think suicide is the most rational decision.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#168

Post by _ttg »

I was curious about how he actually died and found an [1] article describing it:

> Kahneman used the services of Pegasos in the village of Roderis in Nunningen, Switzerland. In the death room with a view over green hills, wearing a suit and tie, he lay on the bed and turned on an infusion of sodium pentobarbital himself. A companion held his hand and told him they were holding it on behalf of his loved ones. Kahneman's last words were "I feel their love."

[1]: https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schweiz/suizidhilfe-weltstar-...

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#169

Post by dotnet00 »

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

This is such a cruel perspective, implying that he'd be better off dead, for what, 3 years of inconvenience to his community, despite the previous 80 years being spent contributing positively to it?

You even literally show that he isn't solely remembered for those last 3 years of his life. We owe people like that care and understanding, not murder framed as mercy.

It's always so painful to see old people around who are clearly living alone, forced to do everything themselves, having to ask strangers for help because they're afraid of being a burden, and their actual children can't find time for them. Only to now see people actually supporting murder because old people become a burden for a couple of years near the end of their life.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#170

Post by [deleted] »

hypeatei wrote: post #72
sarchertech wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inheritance.

So... something you're entitled to regardless of how they die? I don't see why, in this hypothetical, a person would spend energy encouraging assisted suicide when they'll get inheritance eventually anyway. Am I missing something?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN