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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#111

Post by deafpolygon »

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

I would say that this is a societal problem, not an individual one. Society needs to do better in taking care of people who do slip by the wayside, with mental illness and diseases like Alzheimer's.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#112

Post by lotsofpulp »

basisword wrote: post #102
lotsofpulp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandparents stuck around too long, so I have the opposite fear of burdening my descendants with having to (if not legally, then via social pressure) spend too much time, money, and energy caring for me.

I think it would be valuable to get your parents opinion on whether the burden was worth it or not. Or, unfortunately, to see if your opinion changes if you have to bear the burden of your parents in the future. It's easy to assume the burden isn't worth it when we have a bit more distance (e.g. grandparents) but I think people are more open to it than we realise - even if it comes with immense amounts of stress. Say…

I had real time feedback from my mom (the daughter in law) while growing up. I would never ask or want my wife to live the quality of life my mom did for her parents’ in law.

And I don’t want that for my kids, or even from the rest of society.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#114

Post by lotsofpulp »

exasperaited wrote: post #76
lotsofpulp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandparents stuck around too long, so I have the opposite fear of burdening my descendants with having to (if not legally, then via social pressure) spend too much time, money, and energy caring for me.

There’s a solution to this you can start on right now: structure your life and experiences such that you become an awesome grandparent with hilarious stories, humility and appeal to your grandchildren. I probably won’t ever meet my grandchildren if there are any, because I am over fifty and single; I probably will never be a parent. So I will have to go a lot sooner if I am not to be a burden on society. But if you t…

I am referring to being so old that you are dependent on others everyday such that the caregivers cannot go on vacation. One set of my grandparents both lived to 100, and they had a 15 year age gap, so that was the first 30 years of my life that my parents sacrificed time with their kids, professional life, and personal life.

Very few people are independent after age 80, and a miniscule amount after 90.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#115

Post by xpe »

mcdonje wrote: post #66
xpe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably nobody at all got confused by that word choice. This is overconfidence; e.g. it "it is clear to me, so it must have been clear to everyone else." Indeed, there is a person in this overall thread [1] saying the use of "next" was ambiguous: > I literally thought some unpublished book. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548294

Ok, fine, probably someone will get confused about anything. It was made clear to everyone because of the word choice in context. If someone didn't get it then they didn't put two and two together. I looked up the word in a few different dictionaries and the top entry aligns more with "subsequent" in every one. You are wrong on this.

[flagged]

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#116

Post by wizzwizz4 »

xpe wrote: post #39
jeffwass wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sheer irony of your unwarranted pedantic critique of the usage of “next” is that all HN threaded comments, including yours, have a “next” link in their headers which clearly does NOT refer to unwritten future comments. Not sure why I bothered responding to a troll.

[flagged]

I'm reasonably sure this is not what happened, judging by my own recollection of when I have been tempted to write similar things, and my discussions with people who have written similar things. However, your story is both simple and coherent.

It's much easier to point out others' alleged irrational thinking, but the main purpose of books like this is to help you better understand your own thinking.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#117

Post by RickJWagner »

ignoramous wrote: post #32
lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

Jason Zweig, Kahneman's friend, wrote about this and many other thoughts Kahneman would have gone through in making the decision. As Barbara Tversky, who is an emerita professor of psychology at Stanford University, wrote in an online essay shortly after [Kahneman's] death, their last days in Paris had been magical... One afternoon, according to her online essay, she asked what [Kahneman] would like to do. "I want to…

I have to wonder if they could have had one more magical day. Or maybe two.

Maybe in a different city, or with different friends.

If he did “learn something new”, could he have incrementally improved upon it, using his brilliant mind? Could he have made one more wise observation?

It seems he likely left something on the table.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#118

Post by supportengineer »

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

I agree with you, I would not want people to remember me that way.

Folks I know who have passed on also wanted to be remembered when they were strong, not when they were ill.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#119

Post by sillyfluke »

rolandog wrote: post #86
lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

I read your comment and it strikes me as a cautionary tale that can be used by bad people to justify or push for eugenics: "they took him; they said he developed Alzheimer's" . As we're currently seeing happen: whatever is left unsaid in the body of the law can and will be abused by evil people to concentrate more power (even if the spirit of the law advocates for something kind). So, we have to normalize some sort o…

Yes, there is a danger of that in general. I think someone made a movie in Japan about the subject, specifically because there is a culture of the elderly not wanting "to be a burden on the younger generation." Some said it hit closer to reality than science fiction because of that specific cultural characteristic in Japan. It also supports Kahnemen's position of pulling the plug when "the going is good" from a ethical point of view, since it leaves no doubt of intention.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#120

Post by supportengineer »

ZpJuUuNaQ5 wrote: post #104
lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

>You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you. I completely agree that the disease is horrible, but your conclusion is bizarre. When you are in that condition, how anyone views you is the least of your worries.

Is your position that you don’t personally care how people remember you?
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