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Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

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131–140 of 140 posts

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#131
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other interpretation is there?

If you interpret "up to" to mean "no more than," then "up to four weeks before the end of the term" could be interpreted as any time between September 12, 2026 (four weeks before the October 10, 2026 end of the term), and October 10, 2026 (the end of term).

Oh, you're right. I guess I default to the less customer-friendly interpretation when it comes to subscriptions.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#132
post #14

Oh yeah, I've had one of those several years ago. It was a Bahn25 and I got a new one in 2 months and got sent a bill for it. Then, I called them because I couldn't cancel and I tried to tell them about this. At least at that time, the customer support knew about this sneaky practice, and would, on request, allow you to cancel it manually. I did get a debt collectors post about my unpaid bill and I had to send around…

I think after 3 years it is "verjährt."

But your credit ranking like "Schufa" might still be affected.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#133
post #78

I bought a BahnCard 50 subscription last year, for 12 months. After 11 months (=before the current subscripion expired) they automatically renewed the subscription by additional 12 months. Seeing their confirmation email I contacted them within 30mins of receiving it, politely requesting to please cancel the subscription because it was renewed without my knowledge or confirmation. My request was declined and they "of…

I’d think this is illegal since 2022. You may want to check.

https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/02...

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#134
post #133
post #78

I bought a BahnCard 50 subscription last year, for 12 months. After 11 months (=before the current subscripion expired) they automatically renewed the subscription by additional 12 months. Seeing their confirmation email I contacted them within 30mins of receiving it, politely requesting to please cancel the subscription because it was renewed without my knowledge or confirmation. My request was declined and they "of…

I’d think this is illegal since 2022. You may want to check. https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/02...

The Verbraucherschutz sued over this, and, apparently, BahnCard is not covered by this regulations as it is a (paid) Bonus programme, not a service or product in itself.

At least that's what I got from the summary here:

https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-la...

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#135
post #134
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d think this is illegal since 2022. You may want to check. https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/02...

The Verbraucherschutz sued over this, and, apparently, BahnCard is not covered by this regulations as it is a (paid) Bonus programme, not a service or product in itself. At least that's what I got from the summary here: https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-la...

Is there a binding precedent (like a BGH or OLG ruling), or is that just someone’s theory that it’s not covered? I did not check. If there is no binding ruling, your Amtsgericht judge may see things differently. Even if the law didn’t cover it directly, I’d wonder about the spirit of the law. If contracts are covered where an actual service is rendered, shouldn’t that apply all the more to mere bonus programmes? I see no justification in treating these differently. Again, no research done - just a prima facie smell test.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone hates db. They’re a laughing stock across Europe. Switzerland have started banning them from running trains due to the knock on affects. If your long distance twin is under 2 hours late that’s a good day. The only people who thing db are good are idiotic Brits who go “privatisation is bad we should run our railway like Germany with twice the subsidise and half the reliability”.

Idiotic Brit here. Not exactly how we think. We're frustrated that our private railway is worse than DB in terms of lateness and cancellations but also hugely, massively more expensive for us to use. We'd be happy if it was publicly owned because then at least the insane profit from ticket sales might possibly just maybe make it into investment in the railway instead of someone's bonus.

2% discount on ticket prices is hardly going to make a difference to people views, yet thanks to competition I can travel to London cheaper today than I could in 1990.

And your laughable claim about British railways being later than DB, shows that yes, you are an idiot Brit.

Of course it’s been moot for 5 years since Boris started the nationalisation at scale during Covid, simply moving to a standard outsourced operation.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone hates db. They’re a laughing stock across Europe. Switzerland have started banning them from running trains due to the knock on affects. If your long distance twin is under 2 hours late that’s a good day. The only people who thing db are good are idiotic Brits who go “privatisation is bad we should run our railway like Germany with twice the subsidise and half the reliability”.

DB is privatized though?

No, it’s not. It gets far more in subsidy that the U.K. system and far worse outcomes. But last minute long distance first class tickets are cheaper so I guess that’s good. Of you’re lucky you’ll arrive within a couple of hours too.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#139
post #135
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Verbraucherschutz sued over this, and, apparently, BahnCard is not covered by this regulations as it is a (paid) Bonus programme, not a service or product in itself. At least that's what I got from the summary here: https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-la...

Is there a binding precedent (like a BGH or OLG ruling), or is that just someone’s theory that it’s not covered? I did not check. If there is no binding ruling, your Amtsgericht judge may see things differently. Even if the law didn’t cover it directly, I’d wonder about the spirit of the law. If contracts are covered where an actual service is rendered, shouldn’t that apply all the more to mere bonus programmes? I se…

I only quickly searched after your comment, but it seems to be an OLG ruling [1]

[1] https://www.rv.hessenrecht.hessen.de/bshe/document/LARE25000...

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DB is privatized though?

No, it’s not. It gets far more in subsidy that the U.K. system and far worse outcomes. But last minute long distance first class tickets are cheaper so I guess that’s good. Of you’re lucky you’ll arrive within a couple of hours too.

Yes it is. It is a stock company owned, but (mostly) not controlled by the state. I don't see how your statements about subsidies relate to that point. Plenty of private companies or sectors get subsidized.
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