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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#51
The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone.

That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it.

There is a cost reduction incentive, though, which is why it happens. Costs can be reduced for abled people by convincing them to exercise and eat more fiber, so the same pressure can do good instead of evil. At some point we have to decide to care about people.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#52
Ever since I watched my father waste away in agony and die in a veterans home, it has become my greatest fear in life to suffer until the bitter end. I choose euthanasia because I don't want to put my family through that, and the last thing I want to do, if you'll pardon me, is to waste away in my own urine and feces in what will likely be a sub optimal care situation.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#53

I'm part of the Jain community in Bangalore, and the version of this in society exists, called Sallekhna [1], a tradition that's developed over millennia, and this is venerated and celebrated. The philosophical underpinning is giving up of materialness. The practicality of the 5 instances that I witnessed over the past year - typical terminal individuals choose this. They pass away surrounded by loved ones (they typi…

Thank you for sharing this. My grandpa passed away earlier this year at the young age of 97. We discovered a kidney cancer and decided not to treat him and bring him back home.

During his final days, he became unresponsive, only sleeping. The doctors gave us the option of feeding him through a tube. We made the hard decision of not doing it. Gave him all the medicine to help his body heal, but no invasive procedures.

We stayed by his side for the next 5 days. Playing songs that he enjoyed. Audiobooks that he loved. And just taking care of him.

Finally, his breath became slower and slower until it stopped and he passed away. I had the opportunity of being beside him during his last breath.

The passing of loved ones is always difficult, but I am grateful for how he went. He lived a full life and was incredibly healthy until the end.

Without knowing, we decided on a sallekhana-like process for him. It was the right thing to do.

Thank you for showing me this.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always comes up with this prize, but it’s generally considered one of the Nobel prizes, although it’s not one of the original prizes. Your opinion on whether it should count is up to you, but to call it media manipulation is reading a lot of malice into it.

Argument is that economists knew exactly what would happen when they got linked with Nobel Prizes and help solidify economics as hard science like physics, medicine or math in eyes of the public. Begin debate around how scientific is some economics.

Is math considered a science?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#55
I think it's beautiful he got to go out on his own terms, when he felt it was the right time to do so.

I'm often reminded about a case in my own country: a young person had decided it was time to end her life after struggling for many years, without a sign of improvement. She was denied the right to euthanasia. After multiple failed suicide attempts, she went for the nuclear option and jumped in front of a train.

Everyone deserves to die in a dignified and humane way, not in multiple pieces or with a mind deteriorated beyond recognition. Forcing prolonged suffering is unnecessarily cruel. I wish more countries were as progressive with euthenasia as Switzerland.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#56

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

>> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you. I don't think this is fair. I know several people who died with Alzheimer's and although their final years were very difficult for them nobody has a bad opinion of them. It's certainly a strain on the family but intimating that if you have dementia you better kill yourself or your legacy will be ruined is…

I think the suggestion needs more thought, but I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of making my exit before the dementia really sets in. I've directly cared for two family members who suffered from it (collective 5 years of my life, which I'd like to think gives me a pretty good view of what the disease can actually do to people) and I decided for myself that I'd rather be quietly killed than put my loved ones through what I went through as a caretaker. While also trying to work a full-time job and maintain my own sanity while I watched people I'd known all my life be destroyed, becoming tortured versions of themselves like something out of a body-snatchers horror film.

We, the loved ones, made the decisions to keep them going and I wonder how fair that was to them. We tend to not want to let people go, choosing to sacrifice quality of life for the sufferer and those around them for, what, a few fleeting moments of possible clarity? The opportunity to say goodbye to someone who may or may not even understand what is happening?

The events I went through with my family hurt us in ways that will not likely ever heal, despite effort on at least a few of our part, and it did leave me wondering if I would put my son or wife through that should something similar ever happen to me. I decided against it, seeing as I am at the age where these are very real possibilities. In the US, we have DNRs ("do not resuscitate") and living wills that offer prior directives, but something like assisted suicide is not allowed here unless some very extreme circumstances are met, because insurance companies and hospitals make more money from suffering people than dead ones. I'm a strong advocate of the right to die, but it is a decision that needs to be made some extensive consideration and documentation before one actually needs it.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#58
post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

> That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die.

Where? This is a thing which always pops up in these debates because it is a deep-rooted fear, but are there countries where this is a thing?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#59
post #49
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Does it matter if it’s existing or upcoming? People who interested will search gor it and see if it’s already available. So beside pedantic it’s unnecessary.

I'll answer in various frames:

- product development: why make someone "do one extra click" when you can make the extra click unnecessary?

- writing: respect your audience's time.

- humility: take one minute of your time to save other's time.

- databases: optimize for reading not writing

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#60
post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

That’s the problem. If there’s a financial incentive people will find way to push it.

That’s my biggest concern about assisted suicide for an otherwise healthy person who just wants to avoid the inevitable decline (as in this case). There is a direct financial incentive for families to push people into this.

The only way I can see to remove that would be to require that your estate can’t go to anyone who potentially has influence over you in the case of assisted suicide for with no terminal illness.

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