Earlier quoted context omitted.
You seem to agree with the parent comment
I do agree that European roads are safer, but not because they have made large segregated sidewalks (which is what I disagree with as reality and the root cause).
Ah. Ditto.
Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
261–268 of 268 posts
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You can say you're a victim of circumstance or you can say I care a lot about something and have more control over your life. >I'm biased because I'm 45 and have never driven a car in my life. I learned to drive when I was 24-25, after moving to Texas for graduate school, and cycling everywhere for a year. I cycled ~3 miles for groceries. I hauled an upright vacuum cleaner ~4 miles on a bicycle. And a bar stool. You…
> You really can't blame me for not trying hard to avoid driving. This isn’t about “blame” (a word I never used). This is simply about what people choose to do. > not everyone has the choice to move to a handful of metro areas in the US where living without a car isn't a pain. I'm glad you have the means and the resources. I never earned more than $35,000 a year until I was into my 30s. I knew my life was going to be…
Being able to afford to move somewhere isn't only about the money. Family, friends, support networks, availability of employment, and a million other factors apply.
Glad you had the opportunity. For me, moving to a walkable neighborhood would've amounted to ditching graduate school (where I spent 7-8 years of my life).
For my friend who divorced and had shared custody of his son, it would amount to giving up his child.
Put simply, your solution doesn't scale, and it's not about how much someone cares about not driving.
Moving is simply not an option for everyone, period. Might as well say "don't like driving? Just immigrate to Europe".
My point here is that I want to be able to not drive where I live.
My point is that I'm sad that my quality of life would drop if I were to give up driving.
My point is that it's not about me, or how much I care. I can think that driving is stupid, but if it means I'm spending 1 hour on daily commute instead of 4 in the metro area where I ended up living, you bet I'll do the stupid thing, as will everyone else.
My point here is that making the entirety of the 340 million Americans care about not driving, and making them think it's stupid won't change a thing because objectively it is the only viable option for surviving in most of this country.
My point here is that shifting the attention from what is very clearly an infrastructure problem to people who are the victims of the decisions made by governments (like subsidizing highways but not public transportation and urban rail) is a distraction, a red herring, and is helping to perpetuate the problem, not solve it.
And I care about reliance on driving for a million reasons that aren't about me, from social to environment concerns and to the goddamn subject of this discussion — pedestrian fatalities.
A friend of mine was killed by an SUV driver, so it's also personal for me, but I cared before that too — and I'd hope that people could have basic empathy and care even if it does not apply to them personally.
So yes, the choice to drive in the US was a great one for me. Just like doing what a person with a gun tells you to do would be a very sensible choice.
Glad you were able to run away from the problem. This does not solve it.
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You really can't blame me for not trying hard to avoid driving. This isn’t about “blame” (a word I never used). This is simply about what people choose to do. > not everyone has the choice to move to a handful of metro areas in the US where living without a car isn't a pain. I'm glad you have the means and the resources. I never earned more than $35,000 a year until I was into my 30s. I knew my life was going to be…
Being able to afford to move somewhere isn't only about the money. Family, friends, support networks, availability of employment, and a million other factors apply. Glad you had the opportunity. For me, moving to a walkable neighborhood would've amounted to ditching graduate school (where I spent 7-8 years of my life). For my friend who divorced and had shared custody of his son, it would amount to giving up his chil…
> Family, friends, support networks, availability of employment, and a million other factors apply.
You’re just adding excuse on excuse here which is totally fine. People love thinking that a million factors are holding them back when the only thing actually holding them back is themselves.
You made an impressive list of 2 people who simply couldn’t move!
Fine, whatever those people absolutely couldn’t move or do anything to drive less or not drive at all. You really think this applies to all the people who claim to wish they could drive less or not at all? And you really think moving is the only way to drive less? And that the decision to move is one that can’t be made throughout one’s lifetime?
Grad school ends. Kids grow up.
But I’m sure there’ll just be another excuse at that time.
And again, there is nothing wrong with that. It just shows that if a person continues to claim to value something and does nothing to live that value (besides make excuses and blame others), I do not believe that person actually values that thing.
> but if it means I'm spending 1 hour on daily commute instead of 4 in the metro area where I ended up living, you bet I'll do the stupid thing, as will everyone else
I did not!
Additionally you did not end up living anywhere. You chose to live there.
> people who are the victims of the decisions made by governments
If you see people as victims that’s how you perpetuate the problem. If a person says that they wish they could drive less or not at all tell them, “Change your life! Or admit that you don’t value that as much as you think!”
> Put simply, your solution doesn't scale
It obviously doesn’t have to scale. Anyone can make choices that they think will allow them to lead the life they value. If someone believes they value driving less or not at all, those choices are available to them!
They shouldn’t say, “Boy I’ll continue to dislike my life because the solution I see doesn’t scale.”
Additionally it obviously does scale because most people will do anything to avoid changing their life. The solution is right there for the people who actually want it.
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being able to afford to move somewhere isn't only about the money. Family, friends, support networks, availability of employment, and a million other factors apply. Glad you had the opportunity. For me, moving to a walkable neighborhood would've amounted to ditching graduate school (where I spent 7-8 years of my life). For my friend who divorced and had shared custody of his son, it would amount to giving up his chil…
> Family, friends, support networks, availability of employment, and a million other factors apply. You’re just adding excuse on excuse here which is totally fine. People love thinking that a million factors are holding them back when the only thing actually holding them back is themselves. You made an impressive list of 2 people who simply couldn’t move! Fine, whatever those people absolutely couldn’t move or do any…
Interesting. Are you a programmer? This is just like the classic programmer obtuse binary thinking, but dialed up to 11. Complete inability to understand that there's more to a choice than "physically possible" and "physically impossible".
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Family, friends, support networks, availability of employment, and a million other factors apply. You’re just adding excuse on excuse here which is totally fine. People love thinking that a million factors are holding them back when the only thing actually holding them back is themselves. You made an impressive list of 2 people who simply couldn’t move! Fine, whatever those people absolutely couldn’t move or do any…
Interesting. Are you a programmer? This is just like the classic programmer obtuse binary thinking, but dialed up to 11. Complete inability to understand that there's more to a choice than "physically possible" and "physically impossible". Anyways, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmPtfy9P714 .
> Are you a programmer?
No.
It is binary thinking because there’s 2 choices: take action or don’t.
If you don’t take action then it’s just wishful thinking of how you’re imagining how you’d like your life to be. Which again, is a totally fine way to live! But it is different from saying that the imaginary life actually matters to you.
My point throughout these comments is that we can easily see how much someone values something (relative to other values) through their actions. Do you believe this to be false?
> there's more to a choice than "physically possible" and "physically impossible".
Do your best to articulate the “more” in such a way that it isn’t just a subset of one of the other two states.
You will end up sounding like Kramer on Seinfeld, “Bets off. I don’t want to do the levels.” Jerry replies, “The bet was whether you’d do the levels not whether you wanted to do them.”
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#266This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…
To me the reason is the right-on-red rule. I still find it insane, and I have been in Canada for 9 years.
In my driving classes, I have been clearly explained that a right-on-red must be treated like a stop sign and that to turn, there needs to be two lanes free of cars: the one you are getting into and the next one (if one lane is available,this doesn't apply).
Many,many drivers treat the red light like a green light for turning right and that's the root of the issue.
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some amount is likely cultural too.
German drivers are objectively WORSE than MOST American drivers, speaking from experience driving thousands of km/mi in both. German drivers completely unnecessarily accelerate very strongly, take corners quickly, and slam on the brakes when stopping much more so than in the USA. The main difference I can attribute fewer deaths to by observation and critical thinking, is that Europeans have to be far more vigilant of…
That would train higher reflexes in the drivers.
I drove in Rome, Italy, for 8 years and another 7 years in Canada.
While Rome is far more dangerous because of the stuff that happens on the road, the drivers are way more ready to avoid incidents.
I have no idea if this is better or worse,just giving my perspective.
I find driving in Canada very relaxing,but it often puts all my senses to sleep,which is scary.
Also nobody shoulder check left when turning left in Canada (Vancouver). That's a 100% kill of a scooter in Rome,because the swirvle between the cars.
Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?
#268Culture.
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. While car size and roads play a part in this problem, so does culture. And while the US culture is diverse and mixed, culture - in this case people's approach to driving - does play a part in this.
Probably because I was brief. And here I thought it proved I'm not an LLM ha ha.