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Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

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Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#121

Post by saxenaabhi »

outloudvi wrote: post #48

I'm worried about the situation when Dark Patterns are not widely recognized enough as a malicious practice for users. Half a month ago I see someone on Twitter defending its own product design as "transparent and nothing hidden" - the "$0 now, then $15/month in 14 days" description where all text after "$0" are small and in grey. I don't think it maintains trust between the product and users, and thus it doesn't see…

For anyone wondering seems to be this post: https://x.com/zilvestro/status/1967567592358289904

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#122

Post by dandersch »

kmoser wrote: post #116

> Unfortunately, we cannot accommodate your requested date, as termination is only possible up to four weeks before the end of the term. The phrase "up to four weeks before the end of the term" is misleading and can be reasonably interpreted different ways. Let's say you buy a ticket today (October 10, 2025) and it renews October 11, 2026 (one year later). Four weeks before the end of the term would be September 13,…

What other interpretation is there?

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#123

Post by lifestyleguru »

sunaookami wrote: post #101
netsharc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they'll accept registration forms foreign countries, e.g. of "Herr Muller is now a resident of Timbuktu"... Or apparently it's possible to deregister moving to a foreign country with "address unknown", but I guess it'd have to be plausible when you claim "Oh I'm going to cycle around the world for 5 years"...

Speaking of experience from a friend that moved from Germany to another country and wanted to cancel his phone provider: No, this doesn't work, you can't cancel prematurely and you must pay the full amount. I think it was Congstar (subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom).

This make me so happy I moved out of Germany and reminds me to never ever come back.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#124

Post by stratocumulus0 »

Tarsul wrote: post #82

I actually made money accidentally with a BahnCard subscription. I canceled my BahnCard 50 within the first 14 days (which they have to conform to due to laws) via email (btw: before the starting date so I did not use it). They confirmed and send me back 100Euros too much money. Why 100Euro? I had originally used a coupon code that saved me 100Euro. Good guy as I am I told them via mail that they sent me too much mon…

To me it's more telling of German mentality: if I follow all the rules, then the outcome has to be correct. Tell them it's not the case, and they won't know what to do now.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#125

Post by lifestyleguru »

zb3 wrote: post #85
Tarsul wrote: post #82

I actually made money accidentally with a BahnCard subscription. I canceled my BahnCard 50 within the first 14 days (which they have to conform to due to laws) via email (btw: before the starting date so I did not use it). They confirmed and send me back 100Euros too much money. Why 100Euro? I had originally used a coupon code that saved me 100Euro. Good guy as I am I told them via mail that they sent me too much mon…

If the incompetence works in this direction too, then at least we're sure this is true incompetence and not malice..

Yes, somehow landlords are always "incompetent" to their benefit.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#126

Post by lifestyleguru »

I didn't expect, and you probably don't imagine how difficult is to buy Deutsche Bahn ticket. For sanity I was buying with cash at the ticket office. The queue was long, the service was rude, but at least I bought the right ticket. For international travel I was always buying online on the website of the other railways - magically it was not only easier but also cheaper.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#127

Post by tdeck »

Tarsul wrote: post #82

I actually made money accidentally with a BahnCard subscription. I canceled my BahnCard 50 within the first 14 days (which they have to conform to due to laws) via email (btw: before the starting date so I did not use it). They confirmed and send me back 100Euros too much money. Why 100Euro? I had originally used a coupon code that saved me 100Euro. Good guy as I am I told them via mail that they sent me too much mon…

I once bought a laptop at Office Depot that had some kind of discount price, then decided I didn't like the camera. When I went to return it, they refunded more than I originally paid. I also pointed this out and they said not to worry about it.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#128

Post by signatoremo »

outloudvi wrote: post #48

I'm worried about the situation when Dark Patterns are not widely recognized enough as a malicious practice for users. Half a month ago I see someone on Twitter defending its own product design as "transparent and nothing hidden" - the "$0 now, then $15/month in 14 days" description where all text after "$0" are small and in grey. I don't think it maintains trust between the product and users, and thus it doesn't see…

Without knowing the product in this case, the two scenarios can be different. It one is billed $15 now refundable within 14 days, it’s more likely than not that they would forget to cancel, and therefore lose at least a month of subscription. If it’s $O, then they wouldn’t be billed for 2 weeks, and presumably have a chance to reconsider.

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#129

Post by kmoser »

dandersch wrote: post #122
kmoser wrote: post #116

> Unfortunately, we cannot accommodate your requested date, as termination is only possible up to four weeks before the end of the term. The phrase "up to four weeks before the end of the term" is misleading and can be reasonably interpreted different ways. Let's say you buy a ticket today (October 10, 2025) and it renews October 11, 2026 (one year later). Four weeks before the end of the term would be September 13,…

What other interpretation is there?

If you interpret "up to" to mean "no more than," then "up to four weeks before the end of the term" could be interpreted as any time between September 12, 2026 (four weeks before the October 10, 2026 end of the term), and October 10, 2026 (the end of term).

Re: Dark patterns: Buying a Bahncard at Deutsche Bahn

#130

Post by constantcrying »

The part about them being a company "with no reputation to loose" really hits home. If you know your customer is going to hate you, because you suck at being a reliable service provider, then them hating you also because you scammed them for 500 Euros is no loss at all. The actual difference in reputation is marginal.

They also do not really suffer any financial damage. They do not have competition and no matter how badly run their business is, their losses are paid for by the tax payer.

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