Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

data-star.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 298 posts

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#141

Post by philipallstar »

markusw wrote: post #81
philipallstar wrote: post #39

I think something I'd love is to see how to adopt some of the more decent frontend practices (e.g. having a component library) but rendering them using a backend that isn't something like NextJS. Can you import a component library and use it in a Flask app, say, or are the worlds just fundamentally too different?

For Go, something like gomponents [0] or Templ [1] would fit that. (Disclaimer: I wrote gomponents.) I even have a Datastar integration now. [2] [0]: https://www.gomponents.com [1]: https://templ.guide [2]: https://www.maragu.dev/gomponents-datastar

Thanks - interesting! I was more thinking of a workflow where a designer makes a component in Figma, and it's probably polished and made available in a component library by a frontend/UI person, and it's probably a React component or a Web component. I was wondering whether that workflow was at all compatible with any of the non-JS backends that are reclaiming frontend a little.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#142

Post by nchmy »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #130
sudodevnull wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[dead]

the entire point is that the OP - and so many other nonsensical comments here- is implying that Datastar's devs are being sneaky, trying to trick you into getting hooked on datastar only to pull the rug later with some dark marketing patterns.

But, as youve said, the info is right there on the site.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#143

Post by sudodevnull »

NaomiLehman wrote: post #97
esjeon wrote: post #96

This pattern isn't new per-se. The industry already went through it when moving from DHTML to XHR, and it was (mostly) abandoned for good reasons. Modern DOM patching techniques gave rise to some newer variations, but they still make the same old trade-offs. They don't really solve engineering issues like tight coupling and brittleness, nor network issues like latency and larger payload volume. So, to me, this feels…

Doesn't Astro solve this already?

Not in the slightest

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#144

Post by sudodevnull »

esjeon wrote: post #96

This pattern isn't new per-se. The industry already went through it when moving from DHTML to XHR, and it was (mostly) abandoned for good reasons. Modern DOM patching techniques gave rise to some newer variations, but they still make the same old trade-offs. They don't really solve engineering issues like tight coupling and brittleness, nor network issues like latency and larger payload volume. So, to me, this feels…

Datastar author here. Yes nothing is new here, that's kind of the point. You seemingly lost her way with jQuery which was just sprinkle on the page but then spa wasn't interesting approach at reactivity while missing all the points of the back end controlling most the state. I'm not trying to be innovative I'm just trying to get us back to some normalcy

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#145

Post by sudodevnull »

markusw wrote: post #81
philipallstar wrote: post #39

I think something I'd love is to see how to adopt some of the more decent frontend practices (e.g. having a component library) but rendering them using a backend that isn't something like NextJS. Can you import a component library and use it in a Flask app, say, or are the worlds just fundamentally too different?

For Go, something like gomponents [0] or Templ [1] would fit that. (Disclaimer: I wrote gomponents.) I even have a Datastar integration now. [2] [0]: https://www.gomponents.com [1]: https://templ.guide [2]: https://www.maragu.dev/gomponents-datastar

And gomponents is great!

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#146

Post by nchmy »

basro wrote: post #123
nchmy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just commenting to someone yesterday how it's a testament to how refined this is that he's been working hard for over 2 years to produce such a small amount of code. I can only imagine how many variations he's gone through in order to get to what we see today - a refined, simple, easy, powerful way to do SSR-driven declarative interactivity, etc And if that isn't enough, he's also on the cusp on releasing a web…

Hey, I'm curious about the web component framework and css framework you mentioned. I was unable to find info about it, could you link me?

THeres not much on the site yet, as he's still baking it. https://data-star.dev/reference/datastar_pro#stellar-css

But theres rocket and stellar channels in their discord where there's sneak peeks. VERY cool stuff https://discord.gg/bnRNgZjgPh

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#147

Post by sarchertech »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #132
sarchertech wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an example of the entitled subset of people who come out of the woodwork whenever an open source project has any kind of monetization or even just a non-standard license prohibiting billion dollar companies from selling their project as a service. I guarantee the fact that I referred to a project with an anti Amazon clause as open source will piss some of the off so much that they’ll comment here about it.

op: copies information from the website you: "How dare you!!!!!"

There's a such thing as context and intent which are separate from content, and this is directed as much at the people who upvoted this particular content to the top comment as it is to the OP.

The conversation on this post is now centered around the fact that they have some premium features for sale.

Edit: Now there’s another post on the front page of HN accusing the datastar team of being greedy.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45537372

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#148

Post by sudodevnull »

troupo wrote: post #92
hasanhaja wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see what you're saying. But again, the API design woes are subjective and I think it's perfectly fine to iterate on getting this to a nicer state. "Wrong" to me suggests a gap in the understanding of fundamentals or of how things work. If the ideas of Datastar are fine to all of us, and our issues with it are ergnomics, then that can be a more focused discussion.

> But again, the API design woes are subjective They aren't. This is not good API design > "Wrong" to me suggests a gap in the understanding of fundamentals or of how things work. Snide vaguely dismissive remarks don't make such remarks true. > If the ideas of Datastar are fine to all of us Who's us? Are these "us" in the room with us right now?

We are limited to what is possible in the data dash-* spec. If you have better syntax that's going to work everywhere in every browser please let us know!

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#149

Post by sudodevnull »

troupo wrote: post #91
jmstevers wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What design do you think would be better?

Both Datastar and HTMX have the same issue: they want to pretend to be HTML. So they force themselves into writing several DSLs like this to pretend that this is still "just HTML". Since they have a full "Datastar expression" language, I'd just expand that. Then you wouldn't need these weird constructs:

Datastar is spec compliant HTML. Please point me to the code that's not HTML spec compliant

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#150

Post by nchmy »

imiric wrote: post #111
nchmy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just commenting to someone yesterday how it's a testament to how refined this is that he's been working hard for over 2 years to produce such a small amount of code. I can only imagine how many variations he's gone through in order to get to what we see today - a refined, simple, easy, powerful way to do SSR-driven declarative interactivity, etc And if that isn't enough, he's also on the cusp on releasing a web…

> it's a testament to how refined this is that he's been working hard for over 2 years to produce such a small amount of code. In the words of some famous people: > Simplicity is a great virtue but it requires hard work to achieve it and education to appreciate it. And to make matters worse: complexity sells better. > Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to tak…

Yeah, i'm a big fan of his/theirs.

> Ideally, I want these things to be part of core web technologies, and for web developers to not need to rely on 3rd-party frameworks.

This seems to be his prime directive. Everything is standards-based. Moreover, if Datastar evolves at all in the future, it'll probably be because the web has improved and made parts of it redundant.

To clarify, he's a big fan of tailwind as well. But thinks that it is solving a problem that doesnt really exist anymore due to modern css. Im excited to see it, because i also think Tailwind is an abomination.

You can read more about stellar css and rocket web components in their respective channels in their discord https://discord.gg/bnRNgZjgPh There's some VERY cool sneak peeks there. You seem like the sort that would fit in very well there

(ps, stellar and rocket are used on their website already. Just read source to look at it)

Post reply on HN