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Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

data-star.dev

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Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#51

Post by hasanhaja »

Mizza wrote: post #28

Reinventing the wheel and then charging for simple features? If this paradigm excites you, just use Phoenix, dawg. It's so far ahead, everything else feels primitive.

Simple features? Making those imperative APIs declarative is not very simple for me, but you're welcome to not use those features and write them yourself.

A couple of things on the Phoenix point:

- Requires the adoption of Elixir and Datastar is backend agnostic - Adopting Phoenix feels more suited to greenfield projects, but Datastar is suited for that and brownfield ones. - Websockets vs Server Sent Events has been really interesting and nuanced

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#52

Post by nchmy »

afavour wrote: post #44
andersmurphy wrote: post #17

For those of you who don't think Datastar is good enough for realtime/collaborative/multiplayer and/or think you need any of the PRO features. These three demos each run on a 5$ VPS and don't use any of the PRO features. They have all survived the front page of HN. Datastar is a fantastic piece of engineering. - https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com/ - https://cells.andersmurphy.com/ - https://example.andersmurphy.com/…

> They have all survived the front page of HN Right but this says “bring your own backend” in big letters on the splash page. So surviving HN isn’t really something Datastar is doing here.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

He shared examples of some immensely dynamic apps that are running on a potato and survived HN, showing that this simplifies things greatly and can scale. Hypermedia-first is a very viable, and simplified, approach.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#53

Post by andersmurphy »

afavour wrote: post #44
andersmurphy wrote: post #17

For those of you who don't think Datastar is good enough for realtime/collaborative/multiplayer and/or think you need any of the PRO features. These three demos each run on a 5$ VPS and don't use any of the PRO features. They have all survived the front page of HN. Datastar is a fantastic piece of engineering. - https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com/ - https://cells.andersmurphy.com/ - https://example.andersmurphy.com/…

> They have all survived the front page of HN Right but this says “bring your own backend” in big letters on the splash page. So surviving HN isn’t really something Datastar is doing here.

Sure. You're not wrong. I'd argue Datastar's fat morph model is what lets me write a much simpler backend that's amenable to batching/better compression. It's also fast enough on the client that this immediate mode style rendering of HTML is actually possible.

I'm also not doing anything fancy on the backend, I'm using a dynamic language not known for it's speed (Clojure). Really, most of the work here is being done by SQLITE, batching, and brotli compression, which you can all use from any language.

I will concede that languages with access to real threads (GO, JAVA, C# etc) do better out of the box for this kind of CQRS architecture.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#54

Post by afavour »

macmac wrote: post #13
gregoriol wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What more do you need than writing something like `data-on-input__debounce.200ms="@get('/examples/active_search/search')"` in the DOM as being crazy and wrong?

So your answers is no, you cannot provide any arguments.

I think OPs point argues for itself. The example provided is awful developer ergonomics.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#55

Post by nchmy »

xdfgh1112 wrote: post #33
nchmy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird comment. Why bring this up unless you're just trying to make them look bad in a dishonest way? It is clearly documented on the site in multiple places. Moreover, they actively dissuade people from even buying the pro license because they are quite emphatic that most people/sites do not need any of these features. If you do need them, then it's a small price to pay for the functionality, as well as to mak…

I appreciated it. If I'm going to consider a framework I want to know if some of it costs money. Especially like 299usd. Frankly your response seems very hostile and makes me wants to avoid them more.

What a world we're living in - I point out that a hostile comment is hostile, and I'm labeled hostile.

Once again, they aren't charging anything. Pay them if you want some largely-unnecessary features, or if you just want to support years of hard work and innovation. That's what I did.

But you do you.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#56

Post by afavour »

nchmy wrote: post #52
afavour wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have all survived the front page of HN Right but this says “bring your own backend” in big letters on the splash page. So surviving HN isn’t really something Datastar is doing here.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. He shared examples of some immensely dynamic apps that are running on a potato and survived HN, showing that this simplifies things greatly and can scale. Hypermedia-first is a very viable, and simplified, approach.

I think my point is pretty straightforward. Datastar is a front end framework. If any frontend framework can’t survive HN traffic it’s doing something wrong in a truly unholy way.

Surviving, or not surviving, a traffic influx is a backend restriction.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#57

Post by miroljub »

andersmurphy wrote: post #17

For those of you who don't think Datastar is good enough for realtime/collaborative/multiplayer and/or think you need any of the PRO features. These three demos each run on a 5$ VPS and don't use any of the PRO features. They have all survived the front page of HN. Datastar is a fantastic piece of engineering. - https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com/ - https://cells.andersmurphy.com/ - https://example.andersmurphy.com/…

[flagged]

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#58

Post by imiric »

Datastar is one of the few projects in the web ecosystem in years that feels like a paradigm shift for the better.

The author (Delaney Gillilan) has put a lot of thought into how modern web development should be done from first principles, while leveraging core web technologies like SSE, and eschewing complexity as much as possible. His proposed GoNaDs stack[1] enables some truly impressive web applications. I highly recommend watching this talk[2] to get a sense of what's possible.

I wish the best of luck to the core team and contributors, and hope that this framework, or something like it, disrupts the modern ecosystem of popular web frameworks and stacks.

[1]: https://gonads.net/

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K71AyAF6E4

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#59

Post by nchmy »

afavour wrote: post #56
nchmy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. He shared examples of some immensely dynamic apps that are running on a potato and survived HN, showing that this simplifies things greatly and can scale. Hypermedia-first is a very viable, and simplified, approach.

I think my point is pretty straightforward. Datastar is a front end framework. If any frontend framework can’t survive HN traffic it’s doing something wrong in a truly unholy way. Surviving, or not surviving, a traffic influx is a backend restriction.

And yet, most frontend frameworks barely on even the simplest of sites. This is not only well documented, but most of them have now moved towards some sort of SSR hybrid - at great complexity cost.

Re: Datastar: Lightweight hypermedia framework for building interactive web apps

#60

Post by DrewADesign »

nchmy wrote: post #31
bradly wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with anyone charging what they would like, but I do think it should be mentioned on the homepage. It feels intentionally left off which makes me think the developers themselves aren't 100% comfortable with the model.

They're completely comfortable with and unapologetic about the model. And they're not hiding anything.

Ok, so their homepage design unintentionally omits that pertinent information. I’ve wasted a couple of hours installing a FOSS package for a personal project only to find out one of the most heavily presented features was a paid add-in. Even if it’s bad communication design add not intentional, it feels like a salesey bait-and-switch tactic in that situation, and they probably want to know that.
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