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The government ate my name

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Re: The government ate my name

#31

Post by kstrauser »

Just taking this opportunity to vent.

When my wife and I married, she changed her name to [Her First Name] [Her Maiden Name] [My Last Name], like from

  First: Jane

  Middle: Ann

  Last: Smith
to

  First: Jane

  Middle: Smith

  Last: Mylastname
All was well and good until very recently when I was at the DMV with her and we were renewing her drivers license. We found out then that the person entering her name change form at the Social Security department had misentered it as

  First: Jane

  Middle: [none]

  Last: Smith Mylastname (no hyphen, just a space)
For fun, her US passport shows it correctly, like:

  Given names: Jane Smith

  Last: Mylastname
So two federal agencies have her name in two different ways. Yay! The DMV lady was unhappy with this but we talked her into accepting the truth on her passport so we could renew her license, but obviously you can't count on the cheerful disposition of all future DMV clerks. The correct long term answer is that we have to have her name changed legally, which will cost about $400 all told. My favorite part is that we have to run an official notice ad in the local newspaper, but that's just a plain templated text message that will read:

"Notice is given that Jane Smith Mylastname is changing her name to Jane Smith Mylastname"

for which privilege we get to pay $75.

Good grief.

Re: The government ate my name

#32

Post by toast0 »

cidd wrote: post #25

In Indonesia, many Javanese people traditionally have only one name. When they migrate to countries like Singapore, where a surname is required, they often use their given name as both their first and last name. As a result, you may see names such as Chandra Chandra or Supardi Supardi.

Or you get something like Someone FNU. Where FNU at some point meant 'first name unknown', but is now the person's last name at least in the people I've known... But I see references to it ending up as their firstname, so FNU Someone, which would make a little more sense, but is still pretty bizarre. Someone Someone seems like the best way to handle it, assuming single names aren't allowed (because yeah)

Re: The government ate my name

#33

Post by bombcar »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #26
nradov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a related issue, some Slavic language countries require foreign documents to be transliterated into the Cyrillic alphabet, which doesn't contain exact equivalents for certain English alphabet letters. They usually end up using the closest phonetic equivalent but this often causes bureaucratic hassles.

Now I'm trying to figure out how one would write out Matthew in Cyrillic, which has two phonemes that are as much of a nightmare for Russian-speakers as "ы" and "р" are for English-speakers. "Мэтью", maybe?

Do you go with the phonetic option, or do you just use the Cyrillic for the name of the writer of the Gospel?

(It's a more general question, too, is John Juan when he's in Mexico?)

Re: The government ate my name

#34

Post by thewebguyd »

kstrauser wrote: post #31

Just taking this opportunity to vent. When my wife and I married, she changed her name to [Her First Name] [Her Maiden Name] [My Last Name], like from First: Jane Middle: Ann Last: Smith to First: Jane Middle: Smith Last: Mylastname All was well and good until very recently when I was at the DMV with her and we were renewing her drivers license. We found out then that the person entering her name change form at the S…

> My favorite part is that we have to run an official notice ad in the local newspaper

For anyone else curious about the legal name change process in the US, this varies depending on state.

I legally changed my name doing it the court process way. My state didn't require the newspaper thing. Was just $83 to file and show up at the hearing, and it was done.

Where it gets really fun is I have an apostraphe in my last name, and in 2025 we still can't make web forms that handle it. Some allow it, some don't, and it causes mismatch issues all of the time.

Re: The government ate my name

#35

Post by kstrauser »

dustincoates wrote: post #12

Moving to a country that doesn't speak English has taught me just how many pronunciations of my last name there are. It's never really bothered me, though, and 90% of the time I'll introduce myself with the "wrong" one. It's easier for everyone.

I grew up in the US and didn't realize for quite a few years that most people pronounce my last name differently than my family does. After a while I decided that they were right, and just rolled with it. Our pronunciation is closer to the original spelling we see in old genealogy docs. I have no idea why they changed it. Maybe universal literacy wasn't such a thing back then. "What's your last name?" "Suchandsuch." "Is that spelled like [...]?" "Yeah, sure, I guess?"

But I grew up around a lot of Polish families, and my classmates had the annual fun of explaining to our teachers that "Salchow" is pronounced like "Sargrow". I won't complain to much about people "mispronouncing" mine.

Re: The government ate my name

#36

Post by DavidVoid »

xg15 wrote: post #20
pavel_lishin wrote: post #7

There's an analogous problem for Russians, and presumably folks from other Slavic-language countries. Our last names are gendered; if Ivan Kuznetsov marries Elena, her last name becomes Kuznetsova. (And their children would have gendered last names, too - little Borya Kuznetsov and little Masha Kuznetsova.) So Russian families who move to America have a choice - either deal with people and systems who assume that mar…

This sounds as if it could slowly erode the whole "gendered surname" concept even in the origin countries (e.g. Russia) If you can treat the gendered name simply as a grammatical construct, things are easy - and a "name" like "Elena Kuznetsov" would simply be a grammatical error and never occur as a real name. However, now people from abroad visit the country or possibly even (re-)immigrate and suddenly you do have r…

It's already eroded in many countries right? Gendered patronymic names used to be common here in Sweden - Katarina Gustavsdotter (Vasa) was the daughter of Gusav Eriksson (Vasa), who was the son of Erik Johansson (Vasa), &c. - but gendered patronymic names eventually became permanent last names that got inherited over multiple generations.

So now we have a few hundred thousand people with the last name Andersson, despite most of them not being Anders's son.

Re: The government ate my name

#37

Post by kstrauser »

thewebguyd wrote: post #34
kstrauser wrote: post #31

Just taking this opportunity to vent. When my wife and I married, she changed her name to [Her First Name] [Her Maiden Name] [My Last Name], like from First: Jane Middle: Ann Last: Smith to First: Jane Middle: Smith Last: Mylastname All was well and good until very recently when I was at the DMV with her and we were renewing her drivers license. We found out then that the person entering her name change form at the S…

> My favorite part is that we have to run an official notice ad in the local newspaper For anyone else curious about the legal name change process in the US, this varies depending on state. I legally changed my name doing it the court process way. My state didn't require the newspaper thing. Was just $83 to file and show up at the hearing, and it was done. Where it gets really fun is I have an apostraphe in my last n…

Yeah, it's a total patchwork of laws and processes. It's enough of a pain in the neck here to make you have to be pretty sure you want to bother with it.

I can only imagine the "fun" you're having dealing with that, Mr. O'DropTables.

Re: The government ate my name

#38

Post by dzhiurgis »

My impression by living in NZ for a while now that I can call myself anything I want.

I've been asked to verify my identity only when setting up bank account, sorting out visa/tax with my sponsoring employer. After that it's only when leaving/entering country.

For my own convenience I use an english name to save barista butchering my name and feeling bad about it.

Naming kids was an exercise in linguistics. In Lithuanian we have some fun accidents like Justinas (just in ass) and Arminas (arm in ass)...

Re: The government ate my name

#39

Post by School-Cotton »

comrade1234 wrote: post #4
c0balt wrote: post #2

Interesting article, I've had some similar (though significantly less severe) experiences with having ä and ß in my names, it seems many U. S. companies are just unwilling/incapable of going beyond ASCII. The government being this sloppy at getting accents right is surprising, I would expect them to value accuracy and a clean paper trail when handling names. http://archive.today/5h4v2

The USA government can't even handle ü. I was filling out a simple form to replace my damaged passport. I live in Zürich but it couldn't handle the umlaut. I never know what to do in this situation - do I use 'ue' instead, which is most common in Europe, or do I just use 'u' which is wrong but usually works in America. I didn't even bother checking with 'ue' and just went with 'u' Ü isn't even a special character or…

> Ü isn't even a special character or utf-8 - ü is part of ascii

That is not true. Type “man ascii” on macOS or Linux to see everything that is part of ascii.

Re: The government ate my name

#40

Post by palmotea »

> I spent a few days at home weighing my options. Could my parents find other Mexican documents with my original name?

Keep your official documents, guys. Even if you think they're obsolete.

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