Forget self improvement • Hacker News Board

Re: Forget self improvement

#51

Post by connortomas » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 8:35 AM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #37

I am so tired of this same idea popping up over and over on the blogosphere. It's complete nonsense, as other commenters have pointed out. But what makes me really angry is that it really devalues the hard work of people who do accomplish amazing things. "She just won a gold medal in the Olympics? Oh, it wasn't hard for her, she loves to do it. If only I could just find the thing I really love, I could get up off thi…

Really? Personally, I think the more people recognise that hard work can actually be enjoyable, the better. I don't think that recognition devalues the achievement of those who accomplish amazing things.

At an old job, I used to deal with a co-worker who'd complain continuously about the work they had to do. I figured they were trying to, in an odd way, impress us ("Oh, X hates their job - it must be really difficult"). I really do think some people would benefit from recognising that it's possible to achieve great things while also finding some form of enjoyment in the work involved.

And I honestly don't think the Olympian cares what the viewer on the couch thinks!

Re: Forget self improvement

#52

Post by 5xz41s0P8T5N » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 8:45 AM UTC

bithive123 wrote: post #28

I'm surprised people are even responding to this. How much nuance did you expect from a 8-paragraph, 18-sentence blog post titled "Forget self improvement"? If the author can't be bothered, why should you? I realize 99% of blog posts are half-baked throwaway propositions like this one but that doesn't mean we have to validate them with serious rebuttals.

330 words. I dislike it yet cannot downvote. Time to make some rebuttals to earn the karma.

Re: Forget self improvement

#53

Post by publicfig » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 9:27 AM UTC

flyhighplato wrote: post #36

shasta wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post was another success for you.

I'm a visionary.

This entire exchange read almost exactly like an exchange from the comic Dilbert, to the point that I still have a bit of a suspicion that it might be.

Re: Forget self improvement

#54

Post by thenomad » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 9:46 AM UTC

This article has a good point - better than you'd think from reading the quotes in the comments.

It's rather easy to fool yourself into thinking that you want to do what you're currently doing, or the thing that you've already sunk time and effort into. It's rather easy to fool yourself into thinking you want to be a great writer, when actually you just want to have people respect you.

A bit of time spend honestly examining whether there's a path you'd rather your life was taking is rarely wasted - not least because if you conclude that you're on the right track, it's a good way to quiet nagging doubts.

OTOH, as dkarl says, we don't always feel the same way about what we love, either, and that's worth remembering too.

Re: Forget self improvement

#55

Post by AhtiK » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 9:53 AM UTC

Love and hate are emotions taking you away from the real question - is this the right thing for you to do.

If this one thing is your deliberate decision and goal then forget about emotions. Just do it.

Re: Forget self improvement

#56

Post by danparsonson » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 1:10 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #18

This is fucking bullshit. In the words of Jake, sucking at something is just the first step to being kinda good at something. Often when you are bad at something, you don't enjoy it, often when you are good at something you still don't enjoy it, but the ability to self-discipline, to get good at something despite not enjoying it, translates to power over oneself. If we all just gave up because we didn't enjoy shit in…

You've misread the article - he's advocating doing things you feel driven to do by your own will, rather than doing things you think you should (based on external motivations). Of course those things will be difficult sometimes but you won't care.

It's 'programming' for me - I have spent countless hours doing it; sometimes it's frustrating and difficult, sometimes I suck at it - but the drive is always there so I keep doing it, and still enjoy it.

Re: Forget self improvement

#57

Post by barbarella » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 1:13 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #14

dkarl wrote: post #13

On the other hand, you might consider simply finding what you love, and letting the rest take care of itself. Yep, this works great for me. Because I'm never bored by what I love, never discouraged by what I love, never heedlessly irresponsible about what I love, never sick of what I love, never resentful of what I love, never scared to death of what I love. I'm never distracted by what I don't love, never seduced by…

"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work again" Some act like this is a joke, saying: "Yea right, you still need a job to survive." Yes, you do need income to buy food and shelter. But the income doesn't even need to come from a job, and it certainly doesn't have to come from tasks you dislike. If you hate your job, you are probably in the wrong career or working in the wrong field. If you really hate your jo…

My husband loves his job, as a freelance programmer, like most of you out there. He loves it even more when there's no money involved. He can't be bothered marketing the projects he loves spending time on. He's in the right career, all right, but is he making a living?

Re: Forget self improvement

#58

Post by Tipzntrix » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 2:09 PM UTC

farinasa wrote: post #41

I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. Enjoying something usually comes after hating it. Did you love beer the first time you tried it? Coffee? Sushi? Programming? etc...

I know I loved programming the first time I tried it. The other 3 I still don't love, and I didn't love them when I first tried them either.

Re: Forget self improvement

#59

Post by npsimons » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 2:27 PM UTC

One thing this article doesn't seem to address is that some things take some work before you can appreciate them. Most runners don't remember how hard it was when they were first starting out - how much it hurt and how little encouragement there was, and no runner's high. Same thing goes for writing: I doubt anyone reading this can remember how hard it was to learn how to even read. Some things are an "acquired" taste and take more than simply trying them out once before making a decision one way or the other.

Re: Forget self improvement

#60

Post by karjaluoto » Fri, Sep 21, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

danparsonson wrote: post #56

antihero wrote: post #18

This is fucking bullshit. In the words of Jake, sucking at something is just the first step to being kinda good at something. Often when you are bad at something, you don't enjoy it, often when you are good at something you still don't enjoy it, but the ability to self-discipline, to get good at something despite not enjoying it, translates to power over oneself. If we all just gave up because we didn't enjoy shit in…

You've misread the article - he's advocating doing things you feel driven to do by your own will, rather than doing things you think you should (based on external motivations). Of course those things will be difficult sometimes but you won't care. It's 'programming' for me - I have spent countless hours doing it; sometimes it's frustrating and difficult, sometimes I suck at it - but the drive is always there so I kee…

You hit the hail on the head. My argument is that curiosity is more powerful than notions of what one "should" do.

All things come with some level of challenge. Getting past such hurdles has a lot to do with how much you get out of the overall experience. Yes, hard work is required; and I'm no stranger to sticking with something. For more thoughts on this notion, read The Muck: http://www.deliberatism.com/editorial/the-muck/

I've done creative things for the better part of my life. This path has often been difficult. In spite of that, I find a strange pleasure in sitting down and putting pen to paper: be that in a drawing, something I'm writing, or in a new business idea.

I'm not doing these things to improve myself. I'm just interested in seeing what the next thing might lead to. As a result, even the toughest parts become more tolerable.