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Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

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Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#211

Post by paulcole »

globular-toast wrote: post #161
paulcole wrote: post #14

The answer is so simple. We really really really really like our cars/trucks/SUVs in the US and have agreed that about 30,000 to 40,000 people a year will die so that we can keep driving the way we do. It’s the price we pay for the way we choose to live.

It's funny because when I see people who really, really like something their faces are filled with joy. They talk about what they love and it's always positive. When I see car people I see anger, frustration, furrowed brows everywhere, oh and did you hear about that asshole on the road yesterday? From the outside this "love" looks more like an abusive relationship or Stockholm syndrome or something.

I'm biased because I'm 45 and have never driven a car in my life. I grew up in a very rural area in Florida, went to a big state college, and then moved to Portland, OR because it was a decent place to live without a car.

I knew from a very young age that driving a car seemed like a dumb way to live and so wondered why everyone did it and why nobody decided to try something different?

My view is that if people really hated driving they would change their lives to do it less! Instead they make excuses about how they have to drive. I judge people's actions and the way most people choose to live tells me that they love driving!

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#212

Post by lesostep »

kenjackson wrote: post #180
banga wrote: post #30

This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…

Except this seems to differ from the article in that the article notes that the vast majority of fatalities are the fault of the pedestrian. What you describe would be the drivers fault.

>> vast majority of fatalities are the fault of the pedestrian

>> This doesn’t necessarily mean the pedestrian was at fault — it could simply indicate that in a pedestrian death we only get one side of the story, which makes it hard to charge the driver with a crime.

But I have to say, I agree with both of you there. I lived in a country where car drivers are explicitly required by law to avoid killing people, and therefore are always at fault, even if pedestrian was crossing illegally. Law even requires drivers to speed down if they reasonably couldn't see a pedestrian. Basically, if you can't not hit people, you might as well abandon you car.

Just the fact that the pedestrian could be at fault for their own killing, I think, makes the chances of that happening way way higher. It's insane that "well my car weights 8 ton and cant stop in time even when im under speed limit" is even an argument for an innocence, and not a jail ticket that has "didn't care enough about not killing people" written on it.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#213

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

rglullis wrote: post #207
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimal for the environment I am living in. Oh boy. I am not responsible for you. By this tirade, you only demonstrate to me you are willing to make suboptimal choices so that you can feel better about yourself. That is cool, but don't drag me down with you. By your logic, each time you breathe out CO2, it forces me to deal with unwanted costs and a change to my environment. Can you hear how ridiculous that argument…

Can you hear yourself and realize how ridiculous your reduction ad absurdum is? Let me help you: taking your analogy to the other extreme, and it seems like you shouldn't be mad at anyone if they decide to light up a cigarette in an elevator.

I am not mad. At best, I am disappointed as I let the someone go by themselves as I don't get on the elevator. For every choice, a consequence. It is absurd that you think your response was a reduction at all.. Honestly, if you are on my side, please stop. You are explicitly not helping.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#214

Post by [deleted] »

ageitgey wrote: post #153
banga wrote: post #30

This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…

This is exactly why this turn is illegal in nearly every country in the world except the US and Canada. [1] If you are in the UK, this turn is illegal always and everywhere, so it basically never happens. I grew up in the US with right turn on red, so I was used to it and accepted it as normal. But after living the UK for 6 years, I'm now physically shocked when visiting the US at how dangerous it is to walk around e…

[deleted]

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#215

Post by rglullis »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #213
rglullis wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you hear yourself and realize how ridiculous your reduction ad absurdum is? Let me help you: taking your analogy to the other extreme, and it seems like you shouldn't be mad at anyone if they decide to light up a cigarette in an elevator.

I am not mad. At best, I am disappointed as I let the someone go by themselves as I don't get on the elevator. For every choice, a consequence. It is absurd that you think your response was a reduction at all.. Honestly, if you are on my side, please stop. You are explicitly not helping.

> disappointed as I let the someone go by themselves as I don't get on the elevator.

Ok, so you think that people are expected to just step down and be quiet about it. Others would certainly complain and rightly so.

Also, while you might feel okay about taking another elevator, we can not tell people "if don't like your pedestrian-hostile and accident-prone environment just go move away, or stop being a pedestrian".

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#216

Post by lycopodiopsida »

greenavocado wrote: post #209
Gigachad wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some amount is likely cultural too.

German drivers are objectively WORSE than MOST American drivers, speaking from experience driving thousands of km/mi in both. German drivers completely unnecessarily accelerate very strongly, take corners quickly, and slam on the brakes when stopping much more so than in the USA. The main difference I can attribute fewer deaths to by observation and critical thinking, is that Europeans have to be far more vigilant of…

Not driving like a grandma is not a big security issue if drivers are accordingly trained and expect it. Not looking for other participants, especially pedestrians, is one.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#217

Post by Hemospectrum »

ageitgey wrote: post #153
banga wrote: post #30

This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…

This is exactly why this turn is illegal in nearly every country in the world except the US and Canada. [1] If you are in the UK, this turn is illegal always and everywhere, so it basically never happens. I grew up in the US with right turn on red, so I was used to it and accepted it as normal. But after living the UK for 6 years, I'm now physically shocked when visiting the US at how dangerous it is to walk around e…

From your link, emphasis mine:

> permits the operator of a motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red stop light after stopping

Quoting GP, emphasis again mine:

> the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path

The driver turned without stopping. That is explicitly and clearly illegal throughout the US.

This is one of those rules drivers are supposed to be trained on (and tested on) before being given a license, but it doesn't seem to stick.

The Wikipedia article notes that allowing turn-on-red became widespread in response to fuel scarcity. Fuel efficiency is dramatically higher in modern vehicles. Maybe it's time to repeal it after all.

If only there was public interest in public safety...

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#218

Post by jimmydddd »

Hemospectrum wrote: post #217
ageitgey wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why this turn is illegal in nearly every country in the world except the US and Canada. [1] If you are in the UK, this turn is illegal always and everywhere, so it basically never happens. I grew up in the US with right turn on red, so I was used to it and accepted it as normal. But after living the UK for 6 years, I'm now physically shocked when visiting the US at how dangerous it is to walk around e…

From your link, emphasis mine: > permits the operator of a motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red stop light after stopping Quoting GP, emphasis again mine: > the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path The driver turned without stopping. That is explicitly and clearly illegal throughout the US. This is one of those rules drivers are supposed…

Agreed. Right on red is similar to a stop sign. Driver has to come to a complete stop, not roll through the intersection. Most folks I talk to don't even know this. In other words, it's not that they admit they are breaking the rules, but say everyone else does it. They don't even know they are violating the law. Also, many drivers roll through while essentially cutting off oncoming traffic, instead of realizing they don't have the right of way.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#220

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

rglullis wrote: post #215
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not mad. At best, I am disappointed as I let the someone go by themselves as I don't get on the elevator. For every choice, a consequence. It is absurd that you think your response was a reduction at all.. Honestly, if you are on my side, please stop. You are explicitly not helping.

> disappointed as I let the someone go by themselves as I don't get on the elevator. Ok, so you think that people are expected to just step down and be quiet about it. Others would certainly complain and rightly so . Also, while you might feel okay about taking another elevator, we can not tell people "if don't like your pedestrian-hostile and accident-prone environment just go move away, or stop being a pedestrian".

Allow me to restate what you are saying:

"we can not tell people:" we can force people to:

No dice.

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