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Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

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Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#201

Post by jredwards »

nativeit wrote: post #136
_fat_santa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always do is say a car is stopped at an intersection and is making a right turn while I'm in the crosswalk, I always look at the driver and where they are looking. Often times what I see is the driver will just look to see that the road is clear and never looks to see that the sidewalk is clear and just goes. I can count maybe 2-3 occasions where had I not done this I would have been run over. This was on…

I was just in Montpelier, VT yesterday, which has a population of just 8000 people, but as the state capital enjoys a busy downtown with a lot of activity. The moment a pedestrian approaches a non-signal crosswalk, traffic in both directions immediately stops to allow them to cross. Not sure why the people in Vermont have all worked this out, but they do.

Drivers in Hawaii have taken this to an extreme level and will stop in the middle of the road to let pedestrians or other cars go ahead of them even when they have the right of way. And they throw the shaka when they do it.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#203

Post by ourguile »

ageitgey wrote: post #153
banga wrote: post #30

This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…

This is exactly why this turn is illegal in nearly every country in the world except the US and Canada. [1] If you are in the UK, this turn is illegal always and everywhere, so it basically never happens. I grew up in the US with right turn on red, so I was used to it and accepted it as normal. But after living the UK for 6 years, I'm now physically shocked when visiting the US at how dangerous it is to walk around e…

I'm convinced this is a big cause as well. Reduced visibility greatly exacerbates this (as a driver looking for visibility while in the turning lane) trying to see if walkers or cars are coming over the very high hoods of other vehicles. Multiple lanes, signs and etc. all vying for attention all cause a drain on focus which wouldn't exist if the turn was outlawed in the first place.

I'll also say, it's not only pedestrians affected by this, anecdotally just this morning a car turned right on red directly into my path, while the driver was making eye contact with me as I was turning left through a green arrow.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#204

Post by notacoward »

One possibility might be a combination of the "mostly urban" and "big SUV" factors. To put it another way: where are people driving those larger vehicles. I don't have numbers, but it does seem like vehicles that were once common mostly in suburban/exurban/rural environments are now more common in cities as well. Poor visibility plus higher pedestrian density seems like a powerfully bad combination.

Mostly, though, drivers have just gotten worse. Corner-cutting is one of my pet peeves, and a good example here. I used to see someone cutting a corner across opposing traffic - usually someone turning off an arterial vs. someone trying to come out of the side street - less than once a week. Now, even though I drive less, it seems to be everyone all the time. If they're not cutting the corner, they're swinging wide to the same effect. Ditto for running red lights. Where I used to see one person running it by half a second, I now see three running it by multiple seconds. Turning where there's a "no turn on red" same way. I've stood at a rotary and counted how many cars were not using it properly, endangering others. Yeah, I know, get a life, but the fact remains that drivers are worse.

The only real question IMO is why drivers are worse. I have more theories, of course. Breakdown of the social contract, people under more time pressure, phones (though that was already examined), etc. But those kind of aren't essential to my point so I'll leave them aside for now.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#205

Post by notacoward »

CalRobert wrote: post #109

What's even sadder is seeing how many pedestrians are killed _even as far fewer people_, especially kids, are actually walking. It's like watching drownings increase even as fewer people take up swimming. I walked to school in the 90's and even then the curtain-twitchers scolded my mom for letting me. It has only worsened since, as every destination is ages away and involves crossing multiple 45MPH stroads with monst…

Maybe, at least some places, it's a vicious cycle. I don't like that phrase generally, but it seems to fit here. More people driving means more vehicle vs. pedestrian contention and accidents, which means fewer people walking, which means more people driving, 'round and 'round we go. I do see this playing out at a couple of schools near me. The number of people driving their middle-school kids less than half a mile is insane, and it's not just at the school either. Any street that has a convenient cut-through to the school grounds effectively becomes a second pick-up line at 2-4pm. Walking or running near there has become noticeably less safe since we moved to this neighborhood five years ago, from the increase in traffic alone even before other factors are accounted for.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#206

Post by baggachipz »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #140
baggachipz wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because the car companies made it that way through lobbying and stifling mass transit efforts.

I live in Chicagoland. Nothing is stifling it except state government itself. I don't want to get on my high horse, but I actually have a choice and it is bad enough now that I opt to drive on a highway. And that is the 'good' mass transit example. FWIW, I originally came from an old EU country. Mass transit was the way to move around and let me assure you that the government is not better there. The issue is more cu…

I would argue that it's cultural specifically due to the decades of lobbying and back-room deals. Yeah, the government isn't helping things because it's beyond their ability now. It would take a similar decades-long approach to shift course, and cost gobs of money.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#207

Post by rglullis »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #178
rglullis wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal. Some people choose the optimal path. Optimal for what ? > Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen. Person A chooses the "optimal path" (according to whatever definition of "optimal" A has) for their benefit. Their "optimal path" puts person B at risk and forces them to deal with unwanted costs and changes their environment.…

Optimal for the environment I am living in. Oh boy. I am not responsible for you. By this tirade, you only demonstrate to me you are willing to make suboptimal choices so that you can feel better about yourself. That is cool, but don't drag me down with you. By your logic, each time you breathe out CO2, it forces me to deal with unwanted costs and a change to my environment. Can you hear how ridiculous that argument…

Can you hear yourself and realize how ridiculous your reduction ad absurdum is?

Let me help you: taking your analogy to the other extreme, and it seems like you shouldn't be mad at anyone if they decide to light up a cigarette in an elevator.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#208

Post by rebolek »

throw-qqqqq wrote: post #90
physicsguy wrote: post #72

I was amazed when I travelled to the US at just how pedestrian hostile it is. I was travelling to a conference in San Diego and it was just impossible to walk safely between where I was staying and where I was going to because this was the road: https://maps.app.goo.gl/G2PeVbEzQyqbgDTN9

Hahah I got stopped by cops twice for walking to a food court in San José ten years ago :D They thought I was crazy for walking basically. After reassuring them I knew who and where I was, they let me walk off. Much of America seems very car-centric (to a European like myself).

I was at a conference years ago in Burbank, wanted to walk during lunch break as I was tired from all the sitting and was stopped by the cops also. They were super friendly, offered me a ride but couldn't understand why I'm walking (especially without some destination). It's a really different mindset from Europe.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#209

Post by greenavocado »

Gigachad wrote: post #128
Zambyte wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment makes it seem like people are built differently in the US than they are in the rest of the world, but that obviously isn't true. The roads (particularly intersections, where crashes tend to happen) are in fact built differently though. Urbanist resources like NotJustBikes and Oh The Urbanity! YouTube channels do a great job of highlighting the differences, and how they force drivers to pay attention thro…

Some amount is likely cultural too.

German drivers are objectively WORSE than MOST American drivers, speaking from experience driving thousands of km/mi in both. German drivers completely unnecessarily accelerate very strongly, take corners quickly, and slam on the brakes when stopping much more so than in the USA. The main difference I can attribute fewer deaths to by observation and critical thinking, is that Europeans have to be far more vigilant of random stuff appearing on the side, since many streets can have cars randomly coming from the right side because of what qualifies as a secondary road, and in some cases, you must yield to them, so the paranoia is much higher in towns. Of course, there are way more stops and crosswalks, cyclists, and pedestrians in most European towns, also elevating ones alertness. Finally, speed limits in European towns are much lower than anything in equivalent US towns because everything is more compact. Also of note is truck speed limits in Europe are generally 80 KILOMETERS/H whereas American truckers frequently drive north of 80 MILES/H. Cattle haulers are known for going 90-100 MILES/H on I-10.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#210

Post by Zigurd »

bluGill wrote: post #171
Zigurd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrians pay with their lives so that we can have butch looking trucks in the US. Seriously. It's for the vanity of pavement queens. And it's measurable. Quantifiable. Regulators are unwilling to take on this problem because they'd be called woke.

The article examines that idea and finds the evidence is against it.

As others on this thread have pointed out there's a methodology problem

Here is what IIHS says in their study: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/vehicles-with-higher-more-v...

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