Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

construction-physics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 268 posts

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#171

Post by bluGill »

Zigurd wrote: post #85
banga wrote: post #30

This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…

Pedestrians pay with their lives so that we can have butch looking trucks in the US. Seriously. It's for the vanity of pavement queens. And it's measurable. Quantifiable. Regulators are unwilling to take on this problem because they'd be called woke.

The article examines that idea and finds the evidence is against it.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#172

Post by rsynnott »

myrmidon wrote: post #77
websiteapi wrote: post #2

I had a suspicion that there were more idiots on the road after and during covid. good to see this reflected in the data, but sad to know that it's actually true. no matter where I go in the USA I see people speeding easily 50% over the limit, running red lights, blowing through stop signs. it's ridiculous. given how many people die I'm surprised government's having made safety technology mandatory. things like toyot…

> there were more idiots on the road after and during covid I don't think the data really supports this, because pedestrian deaths have been rising continuously since 2008 instead of abruptly after 2019; there is at least a bunch of other factors at play. Most suprising to me was the sharp rise in the "pedestrians on drugs" quota. Personally, I think that "more distracted pedestrians " (from smartphones) is also an i…

> Most suprising to me was the sharp rise in the "pedestrians on drugs" quota.

I'd be cautious of reading _too_ much into that, because in that time period the US has largely legalised a popular drug. You'd expect this rate to rise just because a cop asking "were you using cannabis" in the US is now a very different threat level than it was 20 years ago.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#173

Post by rsynnott »

al_borland wrote: post #37

I don’t buy the distraction numbers. I see people on their phones constantly while driving, despite laws against it. It’s also impossible to really prove anything after the fact, as the article touches on. The graph shows a massive increase in “distraction not reported,” which to me just sounds like the driver didn’t choose to incriminate themself. The spike started in 2010, which is when 4G was rolling out, Instagra…

If it was phone-related, you'd expect it to have risen everywhere, but in fact it has generally fallen modestly in most OECD countries, and risen massively in the US.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#174

Post by rsynnott »

melenaboija wrote: post #163

I’m from Spain and have lived in the U.S. for 11 years. I 100 percent feel less punished here than in Spain while driving. Just yesterday while taking my daughter to school, I was looking at my phone, the light turned green, and the car behind me had to wait a few seconds, it was a police car. He clearly saw me, and absolutely nothing happened. The police back home in Catalonia would have roasted me for that. And I h…

> or eating with a plate and a for

... Like, the _driver_?

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#175

Post by potato3732842 »

ajuc wrote: post #130
potato3732842 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that even if they look back and fourth and know you're there the "go" condition (no incoming cross traffic) is the same for both parties so it's a ready made "two idiots trying to pass each other in the hallway" situation. I think it speaks volumes that the discussion is anchored around whether cars look or not despite the fact that the underlying algorithm will produce conflicts even if they do.

The algorithm (if followed) does not produce collisions. Pedestrians have the priority, and in many countries (inlcuding Poland where I live) cars have to stop even if nobody's on the pedestrian crossing yet - it's enough that pedestrians are approaching the crossing. This has changed in the last 10 years in Poland, and there have been numerous angry debates. It was introduced anyway, and the safety improved. It's on…

>The algorithm (if followed) does not produce collisions. Pedestrians have the priority,

Yes, in magical textbook land sure. In reality there are signaled crosswalks and most pedestrians abide by them so it's not clear if any given pedestrian wants to cross at that time and the pedestrian is also looking for traffic coming from the right if they're crossing against the signal (perfectly legal, but ill advised in the face of social norms) it's a recipe for confusion. Multiply by a nation of hundreds of millions and you get a lot of near misses and accidents.

>It's only a problem if we let drivers get away with making it a problem. The inherent asymmetry in the driver-pedestrian relationship must be taken into account by the law and road design.

I propose a 3 step solution to this "problem":

1)ignore anyone who talks like that from any side of the issue because they're probably gonna make it worse and not better and piss everyone off in the process and make the problem harder to solve.

2) Slap up "no right on red" signs and adjust signals accordingly

3) Measure results and address gaps.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#176

Post by rsynnott »

kode95 wrote: post #124

The tendency to compare the US to Europe in the comments here baffles me: Not only are there major differences with regards to roads and road safety between the countries of Europe, but there are also major differences within Europe when it comes to driving style, aggression, risk-taking, etc. If I, as a Dane, go to e.g. southern France, I'll see a completely different style of driving than in Denmark. In the comment…

> In the comments here you'll see people saying that European roads are much better suited for pedestrians. If you ask me that is definitely not the case in e.g. Spain.

Having been in both Spain (a few regions) and the US, Spanish roads (at least what I saw of them) are immeasurably better for pedestrians than US ones.

> The tendency to compare the US to Europe in the comments here baffles me

Context is that the US is a huge outlier in road deaths. No European country comes close.

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#177

Post by CalRobert »

bluGill wrote: post #171
Zigurd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrians pay with their lives so that we can have butch looking trucks in the US. Seriously. It's for the vanity of pavement queens. And it's measurable. Quantifiable. Regulators are unwilling to take on this problem because they'd be called woke.

The article examines that idea and finds the evidence is against it.

FTA:

""" The strongest evidence seems to be for the “Big SUV hypothesis” — it’s hard to see what else could be causing the increase in deadliness of pedestrian accidents, and not cause a similar increase in other things. The Big SUV hypothesis also seems like something that could be limited to the US. But this on its own isn’t completely satisfying: if its big SUVs, why are pedestrian deaths for sedans increasing too? Why aren’t deaths increasing on rural roads? There are still unanswered questions here. """

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#178

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

rglullis wrote: post #168
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I guess I am talking to militant anti-SUV people. Allow me to rephrase: - Your environment imposes restrictions upon you - Even if you can control your actions, optimal choice is to move within those restrictions - Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal - Some people choose the optimal path - Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen Good grief, why am I bothering…

> Doing things that attempt to move outside those restrictions are not optimal. Some people choose the optimal path. Optimal for what ? > Some people are upset that the optimal path is chosen. Person A chooses the "optimal path" (according to whatever definition of "optimal" A has) for their benefit. Their "optimal path" puts person B at risk and forces them to deal with unwanted costs and changes their environment.…

Optimal for the environment I am living in.

Oh boy. I am not responsible for you. By this tirade, you only demonstrate to me you are willing to make suboptimal choices so that you can feel better about yourself. That is cool, but don't drag me down with you.

By your logic, each time you breathe out CO2, it forces me to deal with unwanted costs and a change to my environment. Can you hear how ridiculous that argument is at its core?

Re: Why are so many pedestrians killed by cars in the US?

#180

Post by kenjackson »

banga wrote: post #30

This morning while jogging in the US I came to an intersection. Green lights and walk on in my direction. A car approaching from my left had a red light, the driver glanced to his left and without stopping or looking in my direction, turned right across my path. I expected this of course, so avoided being run over. If I wasn't watching for this, it likely would be a different outcome. So why do so many pedestrians ge…

Except this seems to differ from the article in that the article notes that the vast majority of fatalities are the fault of the pedestrian. What you describe would be the drivers fault.
Post reply on HN