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A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

larslofgren.com

521–530 of 996 posts

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#521
post #493

Honest question because I just don't know: Is Reddit shielded by Section 230 for comments made by moderators? I would say moderation is by definition editorial, but I have learned to not confuse logic with the law.

Moderators don't work for Reddit, though?

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand your frustration projecting American political biased on this does seem a bit extreme. I'm not an American, nor do I care very much about US politics (outside my sphere of influence). It's hard to discuss exactly what genocide apologia and putrid racism are without a closer definition but I do not see anything on Twitter that's not discussed in the left liberal Dutch newspaper that I read (Volkskra…

No worries, I know your background. But if that's your twitter experience then you have a very well curated feed and on top of that are somehow able to side-step the stuff that Musk pushes really hard.

No worries.

While Twitter has many issues, I still find value in it and I figured that a counter point to the common narrative would add value to the discussion.

I would love a LLM curated social network where I can drive the content that I see by adjusting the prompt to ensure that only high quality, fact based content is presented to me.

While no doubt not perfect and accounting for LLM biases (at scale) is not trivial this seems doable on a small (personal or small community) scale. Given the low cost of LLMs these days (queries on Flash 2.5 Lite or QWEN usually cost me a fraction of a cent), this might actually be a pretty cool weekend project!

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit has a moderation problem, and it's a big one. They've now been asked to appear in front of Congress to address concerns about politically motivated violence being incited through their platform: https://oversight.house.gov/release/chairman-comer-invites-c... Personally I believe I've seen more people in the past few years wish a politically motivated death on somebody else via Reddit, than I have anywhere else…

Moderation on Reddit has been questionable for a long time and its killing the site. To give some examples: - /r/energy used to ban everyone in favour of nuclear energy - If you post on /r/conservative you can expect to receive a bunch of bans from unrelated (popular) subs. Doesn't matter what you posted, being associated with that subs "taints" your account enough for some moderators. - /r/UnitedKingdom banned me fo…

It sounds like a large part of the problem is how important a subreddit name is to popularity. If a subreddit has a good obvious name it is going to collect members and activity even if the mods are awful. Competing subreddits will struggle to attract new users as they need some different less-obvious name.

I wonder if this could be approached in a way that new subreddits didn't have this disadvantage so that they could compete on mod quality and slowly grow / migrate the community.

Of course there are advantages to short unique names like readable links. But it seems that this false authority may not be worth the downsides.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#524

There is a popular subreddit for people with hair loss ("tressless" with almost 500k members) and anyone who recommends the drug Finasteride (banned in Sweden and full of bad side effects e.g. depression, erectile dysfunction, muscle atrophy) gets upvoted and anyone who recommends against it gets their post removed from the front page of the subreddit and a squad of people attacking you. It is obvious some pharmaceut…

I would not underestimate how badly people make things part of their identity and see attacks against those things as attack against them. So it might be just moderators being overinvested in something on personal level.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#525

Michael reminds me of a fellow named ewk, from the zen subreddit. In his obsessive energy and poisonous tactics. It really is a thing to see. A type. There must be a name for it

Wow, very surprised to see someone mention ewk on HN of all places. So surprised in fact that I created an account to respond to you! I’ve been following him on the zen subreddit for over 10 years now, off and on. He really is an absolute sight to behold. And I’m sure there is a name for it.

Following or observing?

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes both ways. If you try to post anything remotely criticizing Donald Trump or his government on /r/conservative you'll also get banned. Even if you try to keep it objective.

You already suspect this, but your expectations are out of line with the actual game/meta game/propaganda model there. You as a person who uses reddit have a general agreement most likely with the concept of reddiquette, and perhaps go to engage with diverse views, maybe to learn something, maybe to just have an argument. Normal internet forum stuff. However, you are arguing with a vertically integrated propaganda ma…

> a vertically integrated propaganda machine that is basically an experimental weapons testing facility for rhetoric

This is great lol

The specifics always depends on the subreddit, reddit doesn't pay moderators so its the wild west out there. You can find whatever echo-chamber you want honestly. Which subreddit does HN map to? Perhaps a mix of r/neoliberal and r/conservative (you know, healthy centrism /s)

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#527
post #524

There is a popular subreddit for people with hair loss ("tressless" with almost 500k members) and anyone who recommends the drug Finasteride (banned in Sweden and full of bad side effects e.g. depression, erectile dysfunction, muscle atrophy) gets upvoted and anyone who recommends against it gets their post removed from the front page of the subreddit and a squad of people attacking you. It is obvious some pharmaceut…

I would not underestimate how badly people make things part of their identity and see attacks against those things as attack against them. So it might be just moderators being overinvested in something on personal level.

Of course there will always be a mixture of things. Some of these people attacking could just be insecure people trying to justify their life choices through strangers (ton of those across the internet) but it is at such a scale and consistency that the stakes seem higher than that.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit has a moderation problem, and it's a big one. They've now been asked to appear in front of Congress to address concerns about politically motivated violence being incited through their platform: https://oversight.house.gov/release/chairman-comer-invites-c... Personally I believe I've seen more people in the past few years wish a politically motivated death on somebody else via Reddit, than I have anywhere else…

Moderation on Reddit has been questionable for a long time and its killing the site. To give some examples: - /r/energy used to ban everyone in favour of nuclear energy - If you post on /r/conservative you can expect to receive a bunch of bans from unrelated (popular) subs. Doesn't matter what you posted, being associated with that subs "taints" your account enough for some moderators. - /r/UnitedKingdom banned me fo…

I can throw another example /r/lectures was a really cool place were people shared mostly academic lectures. Mod took over, put the sub in approved posts only and is just doing token approves very rarely without any way to reclaim the sub.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confusingly one-sided post given the point it's seemingly trying to make.

Could you point out what exactly you find confusingly one-sided? Happy to update the list of examples if it enhances the quality of my post but when writing it I could only draw on personal experience.

>If you post on /r/conservative you can expect to receive a bunch of bans from unrelated (popular) subs. Doesn't matter what you posted, being associated with that subs "taints" your account enough for some moderators

That's a pretty hilariously one-sided example, given /r/conservative is one of the most comically moderated subs on Reddit. Like, you were so close with that example, but no, it turns out it's all the other subs that are to blame.

/r/conservative is just a renamed The_Donald. It has essentially nothing to do with conservatism, and anything even remotely critical of the dear leader, where critical can be just asking for clarification or correcting a wrong claim, leads to an immediate permanent ban. I actually thought it was performance art and was echoing the famous, and hilarious, North Korea sub. Turns out it's actually sincere.

As to the rest of your list...yeah, I think we'd need to see examples. When people do the "they banned me just for {x}", they often conveniently leave out a lot of not {x} that actually led to the ban. People are remarkably biased in how they tell these tales.

Re: A competitor crippled a $23.5M bootcamp by becoming a Reddit moderator

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hi I noticed you weren't that online as recently as you were are you ok?" Wow that must be a lot of work Wow I feel for you, friend Yea id be happy to help out from time to time. --- But needs to happen with other things. Quite often seen in GitHub where an attacker can contribute to build trust. With Reddit, mini modding, regular submissions, good comments etc Defense includes not being shamed or pressured when lif…

This was exactly the playbook that led to the xz backdoor. Just the quotes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39909905 Very long page but a lot more in depth. Search for “Jigar Kumar pressured Lasse Collin” https://securelist.com/xz-backdoor-story-part-2-social-engin... And an overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XZ_Utils_backdoor

Yes, I had that in mind too.

Its worth any maintainer to be familiar with these methods to build up defences. With a few sock puppet accounts a single person could do it on their spare time. A nation state or criminal full time enterprise could do several attacks.

It's scary and immoral but I find it fascinating too. Like the dark side of the how to win friends books.

Security.

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