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Vibe engineering

simonwillison.net

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Re: Vibe engineering

#51

Post by crabmusket »

gyomu wrote: post #25
citbl wrote: post #14

I feel using the word 'vibe' is inherently giving it a negative connotation which goes against the idea presented here. The reality is the tools are really useful when used as tools, like a power drill vs. a screw driver. Vibing implies backseat driving which isn't what using the tools proficiently is like. The better term would be 'assisted' or 'offloaded'. Same thing with the term 'engineering'. That's a fairly new…

> That's a fairly new term that implies being engineers which we are not. We haven't studied to be engineers, nor have real engineering degrees. We've called ourselves that because we were doing much more than the original job of programmer and felt like we deserved a raise. Uh, speak for yourself. There are countries where being a software engineer does indeed imply that you studied engineering and hold a "real" eng…

I agree with both of you. Some coding is part of a real engineering process. That's why I don't like using "engineering" to refer to coding broadly - because it loses that specificity and connotation.

As "coders" or "programmers", some of us should answer the question "are you an engineer?" with a proud "of course not!" (That's me.) And some of us should answer, equally proudly, "of course I am!"

Hillel Wayne's series is great.

Re: Vibe engineering

#52

Post by crabmusket »

drchaim wrote: post #15

I’d just call it “coding” – it’ll be the default soon enough. For the old way: “hand-coding”

As much as I dislike the ecosystem around AI and don't enjoy using them as tools: this is the answer. We don't need a word for "doing the job properly with new tools".

Re: Vibe engineering

#53

Post by simonw »

icanprogram wrote: post #44
zer00eyz wrote: post #31

It's just engineering, or coding or what every your current discipline is. We didnt stop calling them Framers or Finish Carpenters when they got electric saws and nail guns. Tooling does not change the job requirements.

Power tools actually increase productivity. LLMs create the illusion of increased productivity and output unworkable messes while atrophying your skills, ergo they decrease productivity. Oh and unlike power tools, for all intents and purposes you can't own them.

That's only true if you don't put effort into figuring out how best to use them.

If using LLMs makes you slower or reduces the quality of your output, your professional obligation is to notice that and change how you use them.

If you can't figure out how to have them increase both the speed and the quality of your work, you should either drop them or try and figure out why they aren't working by talking to people who are getting better results.

Re: Vibe engineering

#54

Post by plainOldText »

A better term would be “Augmented Engineering” (AE).

You want something to inspire engineers to do their best work.

When you can expand your capabilities using the power of AI, then yeah, you can do your best work; hence augmented engineering.

But vibing? Not so much.

I guess AE could also stand for Advanced Engineering, after all the AI gives you the power to access and understand the latest in engineering knowledge, on demand, which you can then apply to your work.

Re: Vibe engineering

#56

Post by chucknthem »

Funny I'm a professional engineer and happily call myself "vibe coding" when writing code these days, it started as tongue in cheek, but now I've embraced it.

Being good at vibe coding is just being good at coding, the best practices still apply. I don't feel we need another term for it. It'll just be how almost everyone writes code in the future. Just like using an IDE.

Re: Vibe engineering

#57

Post by stavros »

I call it "coding". Nobody has ever cared what IDE I use, what documentation, which syntax autocompleter. I don't see why they should suddenly start to care about my tools when they're LLMs.

Vibe coding is different because it's the "dictated but not read" of coding. Yes, I was around when the LLM was writing the code, and I vaguely instructed it on what to write, but I make no assurances on the quality of the output.

Re: Vibe engineering

#59

Post by idontprogram »

simonw wrote: post #53
icanprogram wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power tools actually increase productivity. LLMs create the illusion of increased productivity and output unworkable messes while atrophying your skills, ergo they decrease productivity. Oh and unlike power tools, for all intents and purposes you can't own them.

That's only true if you don't put effort into figuring out how best to use them. If using LLMs makes you slower or reduces the quality of your output, your professional obligation is to notice that and change how you use them. If you can't figure out how to have them increase both the speed and the quality of your work, you should either drop them or try and figure out why they aren't working by talking to people who…

My professional obligation is to get hired easily when the other candidates can't write FizzBuzz without asking chat.
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