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Gifted children are special needs children

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Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#41
post #3

But that's a different meaning of "need" to what's normally used. Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do. It's much better in the sense, that if they will survive and probably not even cause a fuss if you treat them like the lowest common denominator. It's worse in the sense that you're unlikely to get a strong signal, but without special tr…

Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do.

Isn't the Wozniak anecdote a counter argument? If a gifted kid is so bored they drop out or adopt anti-social behaviors, that's a problem.

Personal anecdote... when I was in 7th grade, the school trialed a math program where some of the GT students and some of the slow learners were placed in the same class. The class had an aide. But, at the end of the year, the GT students had effectively learned nothing - the teacher and aide spent 100% of their time getting the failing students closer to par, at the expense of everybody else.

Point being, there are ways to support GT students without completing disbanding GT programs. When I was in elementary school, that was a few hours per week of enrichment (pull us out of the main class periodically for extra instruction). Maybe there are reasons that doesn't work, but certainly my memory of that time is positive. It wasn't until middle school that we had fully separate "honors" classes (and then high school had AP).

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#43
post #3

But that's a different meaning of "need" to what's normally used. Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do. It's much better in the sense, that if they will survive and probably not even cause a fuss if you treat them like the lowest common denominator. It's worse in the sense that you're unlikely to get a strong signal, but without special tr…

Gifted kids don't need special attention to get through school and life the same way the intellectually impaired do. This is very false in my experience. I sometimes struggled in regular classes as a young kid, because it was so painfully boring to move at the same, slower speed as the other kids. It was like trying to watch a movie at 0.25x speed. I wasn't just "not reaching my potential", I was missing out on chunk…

The worst thing about this is that these kids often get prescribed mind altering medication to have them sit still in class, just because we don't feel comfortable accepting that natural ability exists.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#44
> Even if you’re a blank slater who believes ability is evenly distributed, and a pure egalitarian who sees any demographic imbalance as injustice, even then, why destroy programs that benefit some children?

Because the benefit of one is the disadvantage of somebody else. Same coin, different side.

(That's not my argument, but I believe it is the argument on which this is based.)

> This is one of the few mainstream policies I can’t understand from the other side

A more even society may be a goal. Scandinavia in the 80s did a lot of that, left high performers in school hanging. For good or worse.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#46
post #6

It's crazy to me that there is so much pushback to ending a program for "gifted" kindergarteners . I'd say it's great for 4-5 year olds to be able to do...normal children things rather than have their lives ruined by their helicopter "my child is special" parents.

Fuck you. What about having our lives ruined by being imprisoned in a fucking kindergarten, full of violent screaming children? Have you ever tried to read a fucking book while surrounded by screaming children who keep hitting you? How about building a toothpick model or writing a computer program? Now imagine that those children are bigger than you, and you have the emotional maturity of a 5-year-old.

Forcing children who aren't normal to be normal is child abuse, and your comment is an attempt to perpetuate the kind of abuse that I was subjected to.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#47
post #19

> the G&T system selects, however imperfectly, for merit and effort. This is true but doesn't answer the fundamental question of whether meritocracy results in a fair, healthy society. I think this is a nuanced issue with reasonable arguments on both sides, but the author simply assumes the answer is yes without actually addressing the question.

I don't know where this extreme egalitarian belief that it's bad to let smart people excel is coming from. How is it not healthy? Even Marxism, an extremely egalitarian system of belief has a phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." People focus on the second part of the phrase, but the first part explicitly states we should strive to work up our individual ability and potential. D…

The question isn't whether "it's bad to let smart people excel". Obviously, we never want to actively stop anyone from exceling.

The actual question is whether smart people should receive a disproportionate amount of a finite resource, like education. This imbalance creates a potential runaway effect in which one group grows ever more successful at the expense of other groups.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#49
Two wrongs don't make a dilemma or a binary choice. Fixing the lack of preparedness and inappropriate pedagogy for all students will help all students. G&T students are the easiest problem, especially if self-paced learning were the norm. Then deploy more of the human resources to the hard problems.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#50

I dated someone who earned a psych degree while we were together. Her specific focus was on gifted kids. She described it as a pathology. She considered it something to be managed.

Do you know of any notable people in the industry or even articles or papers regarding this interpretation?
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