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Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

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Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#81

Post by slg »

bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

>Which is all to say, you HAVE to factor delight into your product.

And yet I can't think of a single large corporation that actually has this mindset anymore. The current mindset of management is that any delight your customers take in the product is a sign that either the price should have been higher or costs cut until the product is merely satisfactory rather than delightful.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#82

Post by Conan_Kudo »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #61

> If you’re Crunchyroll, it’s easier to make just one version of the subtitles, than to have a Crunchyroll-specific one and another that you send out for ingestion for “Crunchyroll on Prime Video” and “Crunchyroll on YouTube.” I will mention that youtube has pretty good subtitle capabilities, even if they're rarely used.

I think one of the biggest mistakes was not making WebVTT equivalent to Advanced SubStation Alpha (the format of Aegisub). That would have driven basically all the various streaming services to grow support for the things anime subbers have done for years.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#83

Post by aidenn0 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #62
wk_end wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s why the best subs, are always fan subs! It's wild to hear someone - especially someone in the industry - say that. Fans definitely bring the most enthusiasm to their work, but fan subs are notorious for mistranslations and awkward hyperliteralism.

>but fan subs are notorious for mistranslations and awkward hyperliteralism. funny to see the comment. I was rewatching JoJo, this time in dub, and just came across a line like this. (the context is a fight between two 19th century British characters in a very theatrical setting): Sub: "Stop the futile, useless resistance. Don't hide in the curtain's shadows and come out!" Dub: "You're behind the curtain, like Poloni…

Watching anime dubs with subtitles enabled can be interesting. I've literally seen the dub say "yes" with the sub saying "no."

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#84

Post by xboxnolifes »

wk_end wrote: post #30
bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

> That’s why the best subs, are always fan subs! It's wild to hear someone - especially someone in the industry - say that. Fans definitely bring the most enthusiasm to their work, but fan subs are notorious for mistranslations and awkward hyperliteralism.

There are a lot of bad fan subs, but the best subs I come across are always fan subs.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#85

Post by SecretDreams »

onoesworkacct wrote: post #42
bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

How many customers watch each episode of popular shows? 100k+? And we're talking a difference of ~7 hours of labor. $200 difference at most?

While I agree, it's all a our whether they can pass the cost off to the customer. Customers will care a lot for food quality - will they tolerate a price increase to preserve sub quality or accept lower quality for the same sub price? Are there competitors?

These are the questions that would get played out in the decision process.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#86

Post by kibwen »

slg wrote: post #81
bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

>Which is all to say, you HAVE to factor delight into your product. And yet I can't think of a single large corporation that actually has this mindset anymore. The current mindset of management is that any delight your customers take in the product is a sign that either the price should have been higher or costs cut until the product is merely satisfactory rather than delightful.

Profit motives inherently optimize for consistent, regular, barely-acceptable slop. In order to optimize for quality, you need people to take pride in their work, and not merely take a profit.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#88

Post by vunderba »

charcircuit wrote: post #75
vunderba wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular anime streaming site outside of Japan, Crunchyroll, hasn't had hard-subs.... in forever. You can watch any of the shows in their original Japanese or available dubs without subtitles. I'd be willing to wager Netflix, which has a fair amount of anime, can do the same. What site(s) are you referring to?

It looks like they now offer the option on some content, but it automatically defaults to English and you have to manually turn it off each time. That's a step in the right direction at least.

I think it just defaults to the user's OS language (iOS, browser). Fortunately once you turn it off (or set it to another language) - that setting will persist so you don't have to constantly change it back.

I flip pretty frequently between Chinese and English subs and it'll remember the last setting between episodes / shows / etc.

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#89

Post by kalleboo »

wk_end wrote: post #30
bonecrusher2102 wrote: post #22

Hah, this is my time to shine. I worked in anime subtitling and timing for a number of years. I helped write our style guide — things like how to handle signs, overlapping dialogue, colors etc. It wound up being quite a large document! But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching…

> That’s why the best subs, are always fan subs! It's wild to hear someone - especially someone in the industry - say that. Fans definitely bring the most enthusiasm to their work, but fan subs are notorious for mistranslations and awkward hyperliteralism.

To be fair, official translations are equally notorious - "Jelly Donuts Are My Favorite" and so on

Re: Why did Crunchyroll's subtitles just get worse?

#90

Post by kalleboo »

kbolino wrote: post #65
mkozlows wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what makes the one streaming service stay good, with no competitors?

Ideally we'd have both benefits: many platforms each with (more or less) all the content, where they compete on consumer-focused streaming features rather than on their (transient) licensed content libraries. But right now we have plenty of "competition" yet it's all just a race to the bottom.

> many platforms each with (more or less) all the content

Which is what we have on the music side of things. You can choose Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music etc based on how their service works for you rather than what music you want to listen to.

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