Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#41

Post by Xelbair » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:17 AM UTC

protocolture wrote: post #17

vpShane wrote: post #3

'We'll never require you to need an online account to log in to your system' Look how that changed. Windows Recall 'We'll never use this in any bad way whatsoever' Sure thing. Windows 10 goes EOL in 8 days, with the EU forcing Microsoft to give their customer bases security patches. Not anywhere else though, and not in the U.S. What was the end goal with that? Move everybody over to Windows 11; on their EOL page it l…

>on their EOL page it lists places you can donate your old non-working hardware to. Forcing users to do what? Buy new overpriced hardware when what they have is fine? Devils advocate. Everyone really should be on Secure Boot / Bitlocker / TPM2.0 in the Windows space. Windows 11 is really there as a checkpoint to force people to upgrade to more secure hardware. If you dont care about security, you probably dont care a…

>Devils advocate. Everyone really should be on Secure Boot / Bitlocker / TPM2.0 in the Windows space.

nope. only useful for corporate setting. We should be able to run anything we want, however we want, without any arbitrary requirements by MS. Especially if it was proven already that it isn't a hard requirement to run the OS - just an arbitrary setting.

It just paves road for more invasive DRM and even more locked down systems.

If they have issue with crashes, and taking blame for corporate AV failures - don't give out kernel level access to them.

>Recovery is expendable in Apple town. Recovery of iCloud accounts enabled identity theft and personal photos of celebs to be released. Recovery of hardware enables theft. Its a losing proposition.

I don't care as a customer. I want my data, I don't care about corporate profit margins - and I shouldn't need to. Data theft is pure service issue of them not vetting recovery enough - due to cutting costs on it.

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#42

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:18 AM UTC

leoapagano wrote: post #16

pessimizer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I saw stats Linux desktop marketshare, somebody said it was up to 6%. That's astonishing. Imagine it getting to 15-20%. Imagine that many people owning their own computers again. Then all that's left is keeping IBM/Redhat's grubby hands off it.

> Last time I saw stats Linux desktop marketshare, somebody said it was up to 6%. That's astonishing. I wouldn't get too excited about that. That might just be because people are moving off of desktops entirely and now only own mobile devices, a market where Linux may as well not exist (excluding Android). The number goes up, because at large, the portion of people who run Linux desktops are less likely to pivot to u…

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, personally it is astonishing to me that is only 6%. I do buy the corporates explanation. I even buy the gaming explanation ( despite only heavily online games being 'better' on Windows -- from developer's perspective ). But everyone else? I can only assume it has to do with how little personal computing is done today not on smartphones.

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#43

Post by linguae » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:20 AM UTC

typpilol wrote: post #12

Havoc wrote: post #7

Had to edit a .docx today to refresh my CV today...and realised oh...I don't have any more windows machines on hand anymore. Interesting how smoothly that faded away psychologically after 20+ years of windows use without me even overtly noticing. Think MS is in for a rough ride on Windows. Short of corporate world - Excel/Sharpoint/AD - there is just no moat. Browsers work fine on all platforms, dev work is better on…

They've been saying this for years now. The problem is there's no real alternative. Your grandma is not going to use Linux. So the choice is between windows and mac.. and the truth is a lot of apps people use are windows only. I don't see windows losing desktop share anytime soon.

I don’t know…for people who can do their computing on a Chromebook, a Linux distribution would be suitable.

The people who will have the hardest time switching to Linux are those who need proprietary software products that are unavailable for Linux and whose needs are not met by open-source alternatives. Microsoft Office is still the standard for office software, and the Adobe Creative Cloud is still the standard for many creatives.

If LibreOffice ever reached 100% compatibility and feature parity with Microsoft Office, and if the Adobe Creative Cloud ever got ported to Linux, then this could spell trouble for Windows.

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#44

Post by protocolture » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:20 AM UTC

Xelbair wrote: post #41

protocolture wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>on their EOL page it lists places you can donate your old non-working hardware to. Forcing users to do what? Buy new overpriced hardware when what they have is fine? Devils advocate. Everyone really should be on Secure Boot / Bitlocker / TPM2.0 in the Windows space. Windows 11 is really there as a checkpoint to force people to upgrade to more secure hardware. If you dont care about security, you probably dont care a…

>Devils advocate. Everyone really should be on Secure Boot / Bitlocker / TPM2.0 in the Windows space. nope. only useful for corporate setting. We should be able to run anything we want, however we want, without any arbitrary requirements by MS. Especially if it was proven already that it isn't a hard requirement to run the OS - just an arbitrary setting. It just paves road for more invasive DRM and even more locked d…

>nope. only useful for corporate setting. We should be able to run anything we want, however we want, without any arbitrary requirements by MS. Especially if it was proven already that it isn't a hard requirement to run the OS - just an arbitrary setting.

Right, crazy I swear I hung a lantern on that, implying you could just keep using Windows 10.

>I don't care as a customer. I want my data, I don't care about corporate profit margins - and I shouldn't need to. Data theft is pure service issue of them not vetting recovery enough - due to cutting costs on it.

Right, crazy again I swear I thought I wrapped up by saying we needed a hardware path without conflicting priorities.

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#45

Post by lax4ever » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:21 AM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #28

lax4ever wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are getting your OS from some third party torrent packager you are doing it wrong. There are far easier ways to get around this without trusting that some mysterious third party hasn't embedded some malware in their custom Windows deployment.

With Microsoft allegedly trying to close down all those ways, it sure sounds like OS modification (or not using Windows) is the reasonable endgame here? I'm not sure how this comment, saying to not use modified OSes but use the "far easier ways", fits with the submitted article. Not everyone has the skills to modify the compiled code files that make Windows require a Microsoft account If it's so easy, which are these…

The simplest remaining way that I am aware of is actually an autounattend file. This is a Microsoft supplied method that has been around for a long time and something that I truly believe will stick around untouched because it is pretty much a requirement of any enterprise Windows deployment.

Not only does it allow you to create a local admin account, but you can also skip all the other setup screens that you want by pre-supplying values. Throw this file into your Windows boot media, do a fresh install (which you should be doing when you get a new machine regardless), and away you go. I use this both personally and my work environment. Not only are you then not relying on modifying OS ISO's or compilations, but an XML file is relatively easy to verify that only the settings you have set are the ones being input into the system if you utilize a third party tool like the one available at schneegeas.de

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#46

Post by mixmastamyk » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:22 AM UTC

jazzyjackson wrote: post #38

Havoc wrote: post #7

Had to edit a .docx today to refresh my CV today...and realised oh...I don't have any more windows machines on hand anymore. Interesting how smoothly that faded away psychologically after 20+ years of windows use without me even overtly noticing. Think MS is in for a rough ride on Windows. Short of corporate world - Excel/Sharpoint/AD - there is just no moat. Browsers work fine on all platforms, dev work is better on…

You're forgetting business critical software outside of office that's windows only or windows/macos. Stuff like Quickbooks, AutoCAD/Autodesk, off the top of my head

Moving to cloud, or very rare for the general public to be aware of them.

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#47

Post by lax4ever » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:22 AM UTC

qu4z-2 wrote: post #34

lax4ever wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are getting your OS from some third party torrent packager you are doing it wrong. There are far easier ways to get around this without trusting that some mysterious third party hasn't embedded some malware in their custom Windows deployment.

You're already putting your trust in some mysterious first party to not embed malware...

You're doing that pretty much regardless of what OS you use. Yes, I agree MS has issues, but legitimate malware has not yet been a line they have crossed.

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#48

Post by lucb1e » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:22 AM UTC

typpilol wrote: post #12

Havoc wrote: post #7

Had to edit a .docx today to refresh my CV today...and realised oh...I don't have any more windows machines on hand anymore. Interesting how smoothly that faded away psychologically after 20+ years of windows use without me even overtly noticing. Think MS is in for a rough ride on Windows. Short of corporate world - Excel/Sharpoint/AD - there is just no moat. Browsers work fine on all platforms, dev work is better on…

They've been saying this for years now. The problem is there's no real alternative. Your grandma is not going to use Linux. So the choice is between windows and mac.. and the truth is a lot of apps people use are windows only. I don't see windows losing desktop share anytime soon.

Have you tried it? I see where you're coming from but don't think it would work out that 'no grandma can use it'

My plan for years has been to install Linux Mint + Cinnamon for my grandma when she next needs a new laptop... but she still hasn't needed one :(. And she's slowly getting too old for any new computer

Every Windows upgrade was a big change again. The UI would change each time, Windows Live Mail got discontinued, Office got ribbons, etc. Why reinvent the wheel each time? I've replaced:

- Windows Live Mail with Thunderbird, that has been stable.

- Microsoft Office with Libreoffice, that has been stable.

- The next item on the list was going to be Windows itself, since Cinnamon hasn't significantly changed since I started using Linux over ten years ago. It still has a start menu, system tray, window list at the bottom (without the windows collapsing and hiding!), everything made for usability and working as you expect.

The only exception is (grand)parents that need custom software. E.g. my mom has custom software (from Hema I think? Or Bruna maybe?) for editing photo albums to then send it to a print shop and get a real photo album. That will be web based nowadays I imagine. I should ask her but that could still be a barrier to switching

Edit: Similar issue on Android btw. There isn't one function that my (grand)parents use, that Android 16 has that Android 4 did not. The only thing that keeps changing under them is UI. Sure, developer APIs got nicer, support for dual-frequency GNSS is there, screens got taller... none of that needed to touch the UI. Sadly Google does a phenomenal job of obsoleting old OS versions quickly so you need to keep buying new. EU law for longer device support doesn't even help because you still need to upgrade that OS and can't simply use an LTS with security updates

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#49

Post by rft » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:22 AM UTC

wyldberry wrote: post #18

Havoc wrote: post #7

Had to edit a .docx today to refresh my CV today...and realised oh...I don't have any more windows machines on hand anymore. Interesting how smoothly that faded away psychologically after 20+ years of windows use without me even overtly noticing. Think MS is in for a rough ride on Windows. Short of corporate world - Excel/Sharpoint/AD - there is just no moat. Browsers work fine on all platforms, dev work is better on…

It will depend on if gaming studios continue to invest in a Linux Desktop experience. It's common to run your game server on Linux, but MS, partially through DRM support to the big media companies, creates an environment very strongly suited towards shipping your game binary to a hostile environment. This is partially why major (effective) anti-cheats have migrated to the Kernel. Windows allows the big-budget games,…

IMO the rise of handhelds like the Steam Deck has a decent chance of pushing big publishers to consider releasing for Linux/Proton. These handhelds fit the niche between smart phone and console gamers [1] that might have some potential growth left in it. Even the availability of Windows first handhelds was not as bad for Linux gaming as SteamOS and other gaming handheld focused Linux distros have been ported to them.

On the other hand the anti cheat side has been really ratcheting up with newer releases requiring Win 11 and Secure Boot. I somewhat hope and fear we might get a blessed version of SteamOS for the Deck that is heavily locked down and has kernel/hypervisor level anti cheat functions added to it. Essentially allowing for a boot mode similar to current consoles. While it goes against the open spirit of SteamOS, it might serve as an argument to invest a bit more into the Linux side, potentially improving the ecosystem as a whole.

Or all of it might be the usual "year of the Linux desktop" pipe dream.

[1] leaving out the Switch which is heavily focused on Nintendo IP and has comparatively weak hardware

Re: Microsoft is plugging more holes that let you use Windows 11 without MS account

#50

Post by lynndotpy » Tue, Oct 07, 2025, 12:22 AM UTC

RestartKernel wrote: post #24

Havoc wrote: post #7

Had to edit a .docx today to refresh my CV today...and realised oh...I don't have any more windows machines on hand anymore. Interesting how smoothly that faded away psychologically after 20+ years of windows use without me even overtly noticing. Think MS is in for a rough ride on Windows. Short of corporate world - Excel/Sharpoint/AD - there is just no moat. Browsers work fine on all platforms, dev work is better on…

> And mac side is obviously competitive on various fronts too. After a lifetime of Windows use, I'd even say MacOS is almost on par with Linux for development, while Windows' best feature on this front is WSL so you don't have to use Windows.

I agree with you here, as someone who uses all three (mostly Linux).

IMO the two biggest pains with MacOS is (1) brew is not as good as any other package manager in my experience (mostly in bugs that need manual fixing) and (2) Docker naturally is much worse (not just for performance, but for requiring 'Docker desktop'.) All the other pains are just the myriad niceities I miss from a lifetime of mostly Linux that MacOS just can never have.