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Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

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Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#251

Post by arrrg »

kragen wrote: post #102
echoangle wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is also 30 times larger in area than germany.

Yes, but until recently, Germany produced more electricity than China did.

Why dwell on the past? Currently per capita electricity consumption is higher in China than in Germany (6.5 MWh vs 6 MWh).

However, it is true that even in light of this current situation China is building out solar a bit faster (on a per capita basis, even if adjusted for consumption) than Germany. In Germany it‘s about 1 GW added each month, which adjusted for population and energy consumption is about a factor of 1.5 compared to Chinas 25 GW per month.

Wind is lagging behind in Germany but, to be honest, looking at numbers from 2024 compared to China it’s about the same factor 1.5 difference when adjusted for population (3 GW compared to 87 GW).

Germany should be and could be as fast as China – but there aren’t humongous differences between the two countries.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#252

Post by ssl-3 »

kragen wrote: post #242
ssl-3 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could have that; many homes in the world do have that. And when the grid dies, the microinverters all die with it.

Possibly you have misunderstood.

Can you elaborate? Which part is it that you think I may have misunderstood?

What problem (or solution) is the concern, here?

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#253

Post by alexey-salmin »

__bjoernd wrote: post #203
SoftTalker wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think you understand how this works. People voluntarily do this. No one is forced to. Public power providers exist and work. Balcony solar is added and helps save some cost because you don't buy those 800W from the public utility provider.

People are forced to do it by high household electricity prices which are the direct result of the government policy failure.

In my childhood everyone (like your parents, your neighbors, all the ordinary people) were growing potatoes. Highly decentralized and fully voluntary sustainable food production, sounds like a dream. This happened of course because the state-run economy created food shortages.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#254

Post by awanderingmind »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #244

It's like the backyard furnaces during the Great Leap Forward. Production of electricity like production of steel makes most economical sense at scale. When the economic policy fails so hard it has to resort to backyard anything you know where it's going.

This is a strange analogy. The policy saves people money on their power bill. The backyward furnaces are considered a disaster because, among other things, they produced low quality steel, and diverted labour from agriculture and other things, none of which is the case here - people pay for solar panels and install them once, and then achieve savings.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#255

Post by kragen »

arrrg wrote: post #251
kragen wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but until recently, Germany produced more electricity than China did.

Why dwell on the past? Currently per capita electricity consumption is higher in China than in Germany (6.5 MWh vs 6 MWh). However, it is true that even in light of this current situation China is building out solar a bit faster (on a per capita basis, even if adjusted for consumption) than Germany. In Germany it‘s about 1 GW added each month, which adjusted for population and energy consumption is about a factor of…

How fast has Germany's PV capacity expanded in recent years? In another subthread I wanted some estimate of how many hectares in Germany had PV on them, but the pages I visisted on the subject were outdated.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#256

Post by shellfishgene »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #13

Great idea! Want to learn more on the safety though... > Once in place, people simply plug a micro-inverter into an available wall outlet. later >Gründinger and experts at the German Solar Industry Association noted that the devices don’t generate enough power to strain the grid, and their standardized design and safety features allow them to integrate into balconies smoothly and easily. This seem to talk to the safe…

That they shut off is important for a more obvious reason: The microinverters plug into a normal outlet. So the flow of power is invented to the normal situation, here the prongs of the plug are energized. The body that writes the electrical regulations of course wanted a mandatory special plug and socket that had to be installed by a licensed electrician, which mostly makes balcony solar financially a non starter. Finally they relented after much discussion.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#257

Post by ben_w »

SoftTalker wrote: post #63
melasadra wrote: post #19

Some people laugh at the 800W output. However, in Indonesia, roughly half of the 300 million people live in homes with an electricity capacity of 900W or less. Wish these kind of panels were available at that price here. We have pretty much 12 hours of sunlight every single day but household solar panel is discouraged by the state owned utilities.

[flagged]

800 Watt balkony power stations are generally listed at low hundreds of euros, not thousands; cheap enough to be a no-brainer and sold in budget shops like Lidl.

Mine cost €350, of which €50 was delivery, and €50 of which was a set of brackets to mount on the outside of balcony railings, i.e. it sacrifices perhaps 10 square *centimeters* of balcony space taken up by the overhang in normal use.

(As it happens I have a house with a driveway and chose to not to mount them on the outside of the balcony, but the brackets are supposed to be used that way, I just didn't; YMMV).

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#258

Post by baq »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #253
__bjoernd wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand how this works. People voluntarily do this. No one is forced to. Public power providers exist and work. Balcony solar is added and helps save some cost because you don't buy those 800W from the public utility provider.

People are forced to do it by high household electricity prices which are the direct result of the government policy failure. In my childhood everyone (like your parents, your neighbors, all the ordinary people) were growing potatoes. Highly decentralized and fully voluntary sustainable food production, sounds like a dream. This happened of course because the state-run economy created food shortages.

Nobody is forced. It makes economic sense, so people do it. It’s how the economy is supposed to work.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#259

Post by alexey-salmin »

pintxo wrote: post #249
alexey-salmin wrote: post #244

It's like the backyard furnaces during the Great Leap Forward. Production of electricity like production of steel makes most economical sense at scale. When the economic policy fails so hard it has to resort to backyard anything you know where it's going.

What a strange take. This is not so much a policy applied from the top, but requested from the bottom. People want to contribute to the transition, and balcony solar installs are a cheap and simple way to do this.

I do see it as the result of policy applied from the top, the policy that resulted in 2x household electricity prices compared to the US (which amounts to 3x difference if you adjust for median household income).

I replied in another thread but I still remember how in my childhood all the ordinary people had to grow potatoes. The state didn't order them to, it just created food shortages that's all. You can say it was voluntary, "not so much a policy applied from the top".

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#260

Post by m101 »

plantain wrote: post #55

This is such a total failure of state capacity. Why can the government or industry not build solar power at an industrial scale, and then bring it to people's homes via the existing infrastructure at a price that makes this kind of micro-scale setup completely uneconomical? It's bad enough when we have to put solar panels on actual roofs to reduce electricity bills. This is just absurd. Where are the economies of sca…

This is exactly right. Germany has failed to provide low cost electricity at scale and has now incentivised placing panels everywhere, even on those beautiful balconies we once invested in. It is not surprising that you are being downvoted by the solar stasi.
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