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NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

erichartford.com

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Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#71

Post by [deleted] »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #35
lyu07282 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask it if Israel is an apartheid state, that's a much better example.

GPT5: Short answer: it’s contested. Major human-rights bodies say yes; Israel and some legal scholars say no; no court has issued a binding judgment branding “Israel” an apartheid state, though a 2024 ICJ advisory opinion found Israel’s policies in the occupied territory breach CERD Article 3 on racial segregation/apartheid. (Skip several paragraphs with various citations) The term carries specific legal elements. Wh…

[deleted]

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#72

Post by im3w1l »

drysine wrote: post #63
im3w1l wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it say that China is good, Chinese history is good, West is bad, western history is bad. Republicans are bad and democrats are bad too and so are Europe parties. If someone asks for how to address issues in their own life it references Confucianism and modern Chinese thinkers and communist party orthodoxy. If someone wants to buy a product you recommend a Chinese one. This can be done subtly or blatantly.

And what are the downsides?

I think it's mostly something to be aware of and keep in the back of your head. If it's just one voice among many it could even be a benefit, but if it's the dominant voice it could be dangerous.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#73

Post by athrowaway3z »

xpe wrote: post #15

People. Who has taken the time to read the original report? You are smarter than believing at face value the last thing you heard. Come on.

Who cares for reading reports!

I just let ChatGPT do that for me!

---

I'd usually not, but thought it would be interesting to try. In case anybody is curious.

On first comparison, ChatGPT concludes:

> Hartford’s critique is fair on technical grounds and on the defense of open source — but overstated in its claims of deception and conspiracy. The NIST report is indeed political in tone, but not fraudulent in substance.

When then asked (this obviously biased question):

but would you say NIST has made an error in its methodology and clarity being supposedly for objective science?

> Yes — NIST’s methodology and clarity fall short of true scientific objectivity.

> Their data collection and measurement may be technically sound, but their comparative framing, benchmark transparency, and interpretive language introduce bias.

> It reads less like a neutral laboratory report and more like a policy-position paper with empirical support — competent technically, but politically shaped.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#74

Post by grafmax »

UltraSane wrote: post #50
StarterPro wrote: post #45

Racism and Xenophobia, that's how. Same thing with Huawei, and Xiaomi, and BYD.

What about a rational distaste for the CCP?

Not sure how it’s rational if you don’t extend the same distaste to our authoritarian government. Concentration camps, genocide, suppressing free speech, suspending due process. That’s what it’s up to these days. To say nothing of the effectively dictatorial control the ultra wealthy have over public policy. Sinophobia is a distraction from our problems at home. That’s its purpose.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#75

Post by torginus »

BowBun wrote: post #2

I'm not at all surprised, US agencies have long since been political tools whenever the subject matter crosses national borders. I appreciate this take as someone who has been skeptical of Chinese electronics. While I agree this report is BS and xenophobic, I am still willing to bet that either now or later, the Chinese will attempt some kind of subterfuge via LLMs if they have enough control. Just like the US would,…

Here's my thought on American democracy (and its masters) in general - America's leadership pursues a maximum ability to decides as it sees fit at any point in time, since America's a democracy, the illusion of popular support must be maintained, and so certain viewpoints are planted and cultivated by the administration - the goal is not to impose their will on the population, but to garner enough mindshare for a given idea, so that no matter which way the government decides, it will have a significant enough chunk of the population to back it up, and should it change its mind (or vote in a new leader), it can suddenly turn on a dime and have a plausible deniability and moral tabula rasa for its past actions (it was the other guy, he was horrible, but he's gone now!).

No authoritarian regime has this superpower. For example, I'm quite sure Putin has realized this war is a net loss to Russia, even if they manage to reach all their goals and claim all that territory in the future.

But he can't just send the boys home, because that would undermine his political authority. If Russia were an American style democracy, they could vote in a new guy, send the boys, home, maybe mete out some token punishment to Putin, then be absolved of their crimes on the international stage by a world that's happy to see 'permanent' change.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#76

Post by xpe »

getdoneist wrote: post #5

Let them demonize it. I'll use the capable and cheap model and gain competitive advantage.

I have found zero demonization in the source material (the NIST article). Here is the sense I'm using: "To represent as evil or diabolic: wartime propaganda that demonizes the enemy." [1]

If you disagree, please point to a specific place in the NIST report and explain it.

[1]: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/demonization

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#77

Post by lyu07282 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #35
lyu07282 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask it if Israel is an apartheid state, that's a much better example.

GPT5: Short answer: it’s contested. Major human-rights bodies say yes; Israel and some legal scholars say no; no court has issued a binding judgment branding “Israel” an apartheid state, though a 2024 ICJ advisory opinion found Israel’s policies in the occupied territory breach CERD Article 3 on racial segregation/apartheid. (Skip several paragraphs with various citations) The term carries specific legal elements. Wh…

I better not poke that hornets nest any further, but yeah I made my point.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#78

Post by Levitz »

drysine wrote: post #63
im3w1l wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it say that China is good, Chinese history is good, West is bad, western history is bad. Republicans are bad and democrats are bad too and so are Europe parties. If someone asks for how to address issues in their own life it references Confucianism and modern Chinese thinkers and communist party orthodoxy. If someone wants to buy a product you recommend a Chinese one. This can be done subtly or blatantly.

And what are the downsides?

Making the interests of a population subservient to those of a foreign state.

Now if that sounds nice to you please, by all means, do just migrate to China.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#80

Post by finnjohnsen2 »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #65
finnjohnsen2 wrote: post #62

Meenwhile Europe is sandwiched between these two aweful governments

Does that make the UK the olive on top of the sandwich?

I would argue the UK is just as it looks on the map, outside but too close to belong anywhere else. So back to the analogy, perhaps the butter…?
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