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NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

erichartford.com

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Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#61

Post by p2detar »

tehjoker wrote: post #11

I appreciate that DeepSeek is trained to respect "core socialist values". It's actually really helpful to engage with to ask questions about how chinese thinkers interpret their successes and failures vs other socialist projects. Obviously reading books is better, but I was surprised by how useful it was. If you ask it loaded questions the way the CIA would pose them, it censors the answer though lmao

Not sure what you mean with „loaded“, but last time I checked any criticism to the CCP is censored by R1. This is funny but not unexpected.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#63

Post by drysine »

im3w1l wrote: post #41
Hizonner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am still willing to bet that either now or later, the Chinese will attempt some kind of subterfuge via LLMs if they have enough control. Like what, exactly?

You make it say that China is good, Chinese history is good, West is bad, western history is bad. Republicans are bad and democrats are bad too and so are Europe parties. If someone asks for how to address issues in their own life it references Confucianism and modern Chinese thinkers and communist party orthodoxy. If someone wants to buy a product you recommend a Chinese one. This can be done subtly or blatantly.

And what are the downsides?

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#64

Post by Mountain_Skies »

BowBun wrote: post #2

I'm not at all surprised, US agencies have long since been political tools whenever the subject matter crosses national borders. I appreciate this take as someone who has been skeptical of Chinese electronics. While I agree this report is BS and xenophobic, I am still willing to bet that either now or later, the Chinese will attempt some kind of subterfuge via LLMs if they have enough control. Just like the US would,…

They're political tools within the border too.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#67

Post by hobs »

Hizonner wrote: post #42
dns_snek wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like generating vulnerable code given a specific prompt/context. I also don't think it's just China, the US will absolutely order American providers to do the same. It's a perfect access point for installing backdoors into foreign systems.

Up until recently, I would have reminded you that the US government (admittedly unlike the Chinese government) has no legal authority to order anybody to do anything like that. Not only that, but if it asked , it'd be well advised to ask nicely, because it also has no legal authority to demand that anybody keep such a request secret. And no, evil as it is, the "National Security Letter" power doesn't in fact cover an…

It doesn't really matter when you have stuff like Quantum Intercept(iirc) where you can just respond faster to a browser request than the originator - inject the code yourself because its just an api request these days.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#68

Post by xpe »

wordpad wrote: post #55
Bengalilol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the report: https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2025/09/30/CAISI...

TLDR for others: * DeepSeek cutting edge models are still far behind * On par DeepSeek costs 35% more to run * DeepSeek models 12 times more susceptible to jail breaking and malicious instructions * DeepSeek models follow strict censorship I guess none of these are a big deal to non-enterprise consumers.

> I urge everyone to go read the original report and _then_ to read this analysis and make up their own mind. Step away from the clickbait, go read the original report.

>> TLDR for others...

Facepalm.

Re: NIST's DeepSeek "evaluation" is a hit piece

#69

Post by AlecSchueler »

im3w1l wrote: post #41
Hizonner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am still willing to bet that either now or later, the Chinese will attempt some kind of subterfuge via LLMs if they have enough control. Like what, exactly?

You make it say that China is good, Chinese history is good, West is bad, western history is bad. Republicans are bad and democrats are bad too and so are Europe parties. If someone asks for how to address issues in their own life it references Confucianism and modern Chinese thinkers and communist party orthodoxy. If someone wants to buy a product you recommend a Chinese one. This can be done subtly or blatantly.

> say that China is good, Chinese history is good, West is bad, western history is bad

It's funny because recently I wanted to learn about the history of intellectual property laws in China. DeepSeek refused the conversation but ChatGPT gave me a narrative where the WTO was essentially a colonial power. So right now it's the American AI giving the pro China narratives while the Chinese ones just sit the conversation out.

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