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Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

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Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#51
post #45
post #16

>The board also came with a travel case But why? Are these boards frequently removed and physically moved around in data centers? Or was that an eBay seller thing to protect it?

> But why? To bring them to the field, because they’re _field_ programable gate array /s

Lol, nice one.

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#52
I just used the Raspberry-PI V to bring up the PCIe interface on a Lattice Certus-Pro NX "Versa" board, it's very convenient.

What's cool is that the Raspberry-PI V is just fast enough to run modern desktop software, including (ack!) Microsoft Teams. I was able to give a live demo of my FPGA design by sharing the desktop during a conference call.

My only complaint is, of course, lack of SoC documentation from Broadcom.

Say what you will about Intel, but they do provide full chip documentation if you go through their NDA process. With it, I made a very nice FPGA PCIe environment on Xeon Ivy Bridge: it let me save all of the PCI config registers, then reconfigure the FPGA, then reprogram them and have the chip show up on the bus without having to reboot the server or re-enumerate. The trick is to temporarily set the root complex bit to disable PCIe error detection during the reconfiguration process.

(Was using Altera Stratix-IIgx at the time).

There is possibly another way to this, but haven't tried it:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32334870/how-to-do-a-tru...

But even aside from that, with the documentation you have access to a lot of error reporting which is extremely useful during PCIe bring-up.

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#53
post #37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, FR. Then you can send it back to who you bought it from. All vendors should do this.

The issue is (as I understand it) that some early supply chain distributors either unwittingly bought shipments of counterfeit parts, or otherwise ended up stocking them as genuine. Then legitimate hardware manufacturers used them. And let's be upfront here, any part using FTDI USB interfaces is low volume hardware that's either indie or, like, niche scientific gear. These are not chips you use when you have a 20-per…

Cisco use these chips inside their switches, they are all over the place. I still think this is good, I buy them from RS, any authorised distributor will not tell you to 'fuck off', if they do please forward it to FTDI. If you're buying off Alibaba or eBay then that's on you. Sorry.

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#54
post #37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, FR. Then you can send it back to who you bought it from. All vendors should do this.

The issue is (as I understand it) that some early supply chain distributors either unwittingly bought shipments of counterfeit parts, or otherwise ended up stocking them as genuine. Then legitimate hardware manufacturers used them. And let's be upfront here, any part using FTDI USB interfaces is low volume hardware that's either indie or, like, niche scientific gear. These are not chips you use when you have a 20-per…

Penalizing FTDI for the OEM's negligence in not properly securing their supply chain? That's absurd. It is 100% the responsibility of the OEM to vet their suppliers to ensure that they know what's going into their product.

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#55
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the downvotes? My understanding ai is not a use for fpgas because models require a lot of ram (preferably fast ram) and fpga themselves don’t have a lot of it. An fpga will have pins you can attach fast ram, but then board layout and layering traces becomes very non trivial. Hence gfx cards (and a lot of them) are more suited.

FPGA will never be as fast as an ASIC. NV data center chips cant do graphics anymore, just compute.

Funny you say that, if you look at the git repo for the blog there are a bunch of asic screenshots currently being committed.

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#56

Is anyone aware of any examples of FPGAs used to implement neural nets or other connectionist architectures? What's exciting about FPGAs is that they make "custom" chips affordable for colleges and even individuals... At this point in time, with the AI world fixated on LLMs, it seems that there's an opportunity for small groups/individuals to use FPGAs to experiment with more animal-like ground-up approaches to intel…

Certainly, we use networks on FPGA at FNAL for inference on LHC/CMS high energy physics results. There are also cases involving microsecond control of dynamical systems. https://fastmachinelearning.org/hls4ml/ https://indico.cern.ch/event/797510/contributions/3313676/at... https://cdrdv2-public.intel.com/833277/deploying-tinyml-fpga... https://ml4physicalsciences.github.io/2019/files/NeurIPS_ML4...

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#57

I just used the Raspberry-PI V to bring up the PCIe interface on a Lattice Certus-Pro NX "Versa" board, it's very convenient. What's cool is that the Raspberry-PI V is just fast enough to run modern desktop software, including (ack!) Microsoft Teams. I was able to give a live demo of my FPGA design by sharing the desktop during a conference call. My only complaint is, of course, lack of SoC documentation from Broadco…

Ah, that's a fancy trick! I remember many a time making Linux real angry with my PCIe fiddling. I believe in the end we got Partial Reconfiguration set up, where the PCIe portion of the device would not be reprogrammed but we could reload the rest. It was definitely a trade off though in terms of layout planning and space reservation.

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#58
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just be careful as the counterfeit FTDI chips can have bad internal regulators etc. (Usually those small Red UART and GPIO breakout hobby PCB.) Usually better to use the vendor supplied JTAG tools, or build your own with known good silicon. Recovering FPGA hardware is always a mixed bag of what IP and documentation is available to bring up the board. Looks like nice silicon though. =3

Also beware that FTDI has bricked swathes of gear that (often inadvertently) used counterfeit chips, via driver updates. So if you buy gear that uses an FTDI chip then if you’re unlucky want it turns out to be counterfeit, your thing might get bricked. :/

Importantly not just counterfeit chips but also completely legal clone chips. For context, for a long time Windows did not have a driver for the CDC serial communication class out of the box. But FTDI had made good Windows drivers, and their interface was easy to clone. So for a time there was a market for making 3rd-party chips implementing FTDI's interface and copying their USB id to be recognized by their driver[0]. Of course some unscrupulous sellers would inevitably try to pass those of as genuine FTDI chips. FTDI was probably not happy with either of them, with the clone chips manufacturer piggybacking of their hard work. But they could only do anything about the counterfeits, so they kinda ignored the existence of legal clones and in all their public communication only talked about taking steps to shut down counterfeit chips (most likely well knowing that their were also destroying chips of legitimate competitors).

[0] Clearly allowed at least in the US under the decision in Sega v. Accolade

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#59

just received a kv260 board, i thought vivado is free to use?

Vivado has free and paid tiers. The free tiers ("WebPack") support their a myriad of their smaller devices (which includes the Kria boards). The larger devices (Virtex, etc.), however, are generally only supported by the paid versions of Vivado.

It's inconvenient for hobbyists, sure, but for enterprise uses the cost of Vivado for a team is largely inconsequential (which I suspect is why they get away with this).

Re: Alibaba cloud FPGA: the $200 Kintex UltraScale+

#60
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also beware that FTDI has bricked swathes of gear that (often inadvertently) used counterfeit chips, via driver updates. So if you buy gear that uses an FTDI chip then if you’re unlucky want it turns out to be counterfeit, your thing might get bricked. :/

Importantly not just counterfeit chips but also completely legal clone chips. For context, for a long time Windows did not have a driver for the CDC serial communication class out of the box. But FTDI had made good Windows drivers, and their interface was easy to clone. So for a time there was a market for making 3rd-party chips implementing FTDI's interface and copying their USB id to be recognized by their driver[0…

Many Chip VID:PID listed in

> lsusb

or

C:\> Get-PnpDevice -PresentOnly | Where-Object { $_.InstanceId -match '^USB' } | Format-List

are considered copyrighted IP in North America. Many of the paid device codes are often not like other Communication Device Class drivers or free generic HID devices listed in the USB standard.

Early next year Windows 11 will be locking out unsigned drivers from the OS. Good for keeping the kernel more consistent, but could be bad for hobby hardware drivers.

Personally, I think it is ludicrous, but for 83% of users they have no other option than pay $6.32 for a $$0.43 chip. =3

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