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Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

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Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#191

Post by sershe »

"wielded by states and capitalists to monitor, control, and discipline populations. From passports to colonial passbooks, from welfare cards to border regimes, the apparatus of identification has always been tied to domination."

Uh, what is the word capitalists doing here? All of the examples are of the states. Notably, most of the states doing those were the least capitalist of all.

In Soviet Union (and Russia) you have an internal passport that you have to carry at all times and show to the cops if asked. You need/used to need a residence permit or some other explanation to be somewhere other than your address stamped in the passport (in fact, earlier they wouldn't give rural people passports at all, so they wouldn't travel). Or btw if your photo is too old you could be taken to a police station. I have been, almost, and the only difference added by capitalism is that you could conveniently pay a bribe on the spot (it was literally the birthday I was supposed to change my photo so I got a free birthday special after some discussion)

I surrendered my internal passport with my Russian citizenship and never had "capitalists" offer me any replacement digital ID! It's jarring, what am I supposed to show to capitalist cops?!

Sure, surveillance, etc. But the author is clearly extremely biased and keeps harping on the sins of Paul to condemn Peter.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#192

Post by port11 »

zwnow wrote: post #136
microtonal wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in Germany, such efforts are doomed to fail (or were at least doomed to fail when we lived in Germany) because Germany is reluctant to connect different government administrations due to historical baggage (SS, Stasi, etc). We have had DigiD in The Netherlands since 2004 (at least that's when it got its current name) and it's glorious. Everything from requesting a new passport, logging to your tax administrat…

Germany as a whole has become a total disaster sadly. From public transportation to schools over retirement homes to rent prices. Everything is crumbling and its depressing. I wished we could at least have good technical infrastructure, as its relatively cost efficient, but no, we lack competence and old people are blocking every modernization there is (in public offices). Its honestly extremely frustrating.

This is one of the most exaggerated takes on the country I've come across. I lived there for 8 years and Germany is, frankly, a superb place to live.

I left Germany 3 times and my quality of life took a hit each time. The first 2 I went back; sadly I can't do it again.

Public transportation was in the top 3 of what I've experienced in Continental Europe; schools are seen as respectable and good; healthcare was generally very good if expensive (14.x% of salary is a bit much). I could go on.

Germany has definite problems, and the federal overruling of things like “rent brakes” is cause for concern. But to call the country ’a total disaster’ can only be done by one that, quite honestly, has no idea of what a bad or even mediocre country looks like.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#193

Post by tavavex »

cowboy_henk wrote: post #168
raspyberr wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if sites start to request more information than they need because why not? If you don't give it, you don't get access, and you want access. What incentive do they have for requesting less information?

Asking for more information than required will cause people to stop using the website, hurting revenue.

If the existing situation with website registrations, required ID uploads for social media, signing in with Google/Apple/Microsoft, etc. is to go by, the majority of people don't mind giving out nearly anything about them when asked for it by someone who seems trustworthy at a brief glance.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#195

Post by tavavex »

krmbzds wrote: post #135

The word "Capitalist" is casually thrown in with other bad things to make it look bad. Don't be tricked. Capitalism is a good and moral system. In fact, it is the only moral system that works. What's bad is central planning and government surveillance.

This blog is written by an anarchist - a member of a group that's infamously opposed to both things you mention as bad.

Would you mind providing a more specific critique of what they're arguing? So far, all you've said just comes off as ideological reflexes. I don't even need to caricature you to say that your post is just "My thing is always good, and the only good. Any other thing is bad." with no further argumentation.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#196

Post by reaperducer »

Mashimo wrote: post #68
graemep wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means the provider can track you across all those. What you spend, what you read, what medical treatment you have. All just to save carrying a wallet?

They can definitely track when and where you log in. I can't say if there are backdoors in place for them to log in, and if that is (currently) legal. Hospitals and libraries are government run, I would assume even if they had their own login, they could manage to snoop the data, no? These are all online service. So it's not even a wallet argument. But we recently got digital drivers license, which can be used in the…

Hospitals and libraries are government run, I would assume even if they had their own login, they could manage to snoop the data, no?

In the United States, what you read is your business. The librarians have been one of the very few groups who have successfully pushed back against the new administration's demands for information.

Last year, I could log in to my very large city's library web site and see everything I checked out for the last few years. I looked a couple of weeks ago, and all that history has been purged, I presume as a cautionary move to preserve my privacy. Good for them.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#197

Post by reaperducer »

phatfish wrote: post #138
hhh wrote: post #2

I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

Agreed, all the scaremongering is hilarious. As if a digital ID is what is going to be used to repress the common (wo)man. News flash, if your "liberal western government" wanted to they have more than enough tools to do it already. See all the repressive governments with institutions stuck in the 60s. - Don't trust corporations that you have no control over. - Vote wisely for the government you do have some control…

all the scaremongering is hilarious.

Only if you didn't pay attention in history class.

Certain European governments didn't tattoo serial numbers on the arms of certain citizens so they could more easily access government services and check out library books.

You can say "Europe isn't like that anymore" all you want. Governments change. Power shifts.

Less than a decade ago, Europe was saying that Russia is no longer a threat because it was welcomed into the Western economy. Things change.

The present is not the future.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#198

Post by Brian_K_White »

cowboy_henk wrote: post #168
raspyberr wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if sites start to request more information than they need because why not? If you don't give it, you don't get access, and you want access. What incentive do they have for requesting less information?

Asking for more information than required will cause people to stop using the website, hurting revenue.

I have never seen one of those planets.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#199

Post by pseudalopex »

Muromec wrote: post #36
skrebbel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part of the argument I don’t get. A digital ID system like the one in NL is basically just a login system. It’s oauth for public services, not too different from “sign in with Google”. How does that lead to perfect law enforcement? Like, how does it prevent homosexuals from kissing? I don't mean this dismissively. I assume there is a series of steps that make sense that I’m not seeing.

I can explain the logic behind it. The first step you need to take is view a government as a hostile entity. It's not your government, it's occupational government. It's unjust by default and you don't agree with the rules it makes, including immigration and taxes. Now imagine there are three arms of the government -- the one that collects taxes, the one that administers unemployment benefits and the other, which giv…

> The first step you need to take is view a government as a hostile entity.

No. Observing hostile governments replaced non hostile governments and used previously harmless capabilities is sufficient.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#200

Post by pseudalopex »

michaelt wrote: post #187
pjc50 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police arresting people for posting unfashionable takes on human sexuality to social media When you look into these cases, they always turn out to be "a sustained campaign of harassment and abuse against one or more named individuals". It took years for even Glinner to finally cross that line and get his collar felt.

I don’t follow this stuff in depth but if the arrests are part of a "a sustained campaign of harassment and abuse against one or more named individuals" by the police that sounds worse IMHO?

They meant the people who were arrested were arrested for harassment and abuse of individuals. Not posting unfashionable takes. Graham Linehan was their example.
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