How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized • Hacker News Board

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#781

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:32 AM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #721

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It's a natural, forgivable response. On par with the folks who cheered on Charlie Kirk's death. Neither of those are natural or forgivable, and I've never listened to a damn word Kirk said in my life.

> Neither of those are natural or forgivable, and I've never listened to a damn word Kirk said in my life

I haven't either. That's probably why I don't have an emotional reaction here. A guy was brutally murdered in public, and that's all I had to respond to.

Finding someone having mean thoughts--not actions, just thoughts and words--unforgiveable is, well, it's how you get entrenched, hateful, multigenerational conflicts like the one we're discussing.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#782

Post by klipt » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:33 AM UTC

andrewcamel wrote: post #776

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

What response would you suggest for Israel? My understanding is their civilian vs combatant ratio is lower than comparable urban conflicts. So it’s hard to respond “softer”. Population adjusted, 10/7 was 10x+ worse than 9/11. Challenging to expect zero response. So what else is there?

The layman's understanding of war is less guided by international law and more around ideas like "tit for tat". Eg if Hamas kills 1000 Israeli civilians, Israel is entitled to kill 1000 Palestinian civilians, but should stop after that.

Is it the better response under international law? Not necessarily, but it would be better PR.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#783

Post by jameshilliard » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:33 AM UTC

markessien wrote: post #768

jameshilliard wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in. It's not just Palestinians they nee…

So eternal apartheid? That's what will make the Palestinians happy? When the Tamil Tigers were defeated, they were able to vote in their country. The separatists in Spain get to vote in Spain. The kurds get to vote in Turkey. Israel is the only country that says: do not separate and create your own state, but at the same time if you stay here, we will NOT give you civil rights.

> So eternal apartheid? That's what will make the Palestinians happy? When the Tamil Tigers were defeated, they were able to vote in their country. The separatists in Spain get to vote in Spain. The kurds get to vote in Turkey.

A military occupation is not an apartheid, apartheid is race based discrimination, the occupation here is citizenship based discrimination(which basically all countries have in various forms). I'm not really sure what the best solution here is, but it's probably going to need to involve some serious de-radicalization on the part of the Palestinian people and then some form of a two-state solution.

> Israel is the only country that says: do not separate and create your own state, but at the same time if you stay here, we will NOT give you civil rights.

They tried that approach already with Gaza, it backfired massively. It's pretty obvious giving the people who elected terrorists(and based on Palestinian opinion polling they would likely elect Hamas again) the right to vote in Israeli elections isn't going to lead to a peaceful coexistence.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#784

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:33 AM UTC

parineum wrote: post #711

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think killing Sinwar means much. Israel definitely wanted him dead but, to their national security, it doesn't mean anything. Sinwar isn't unique and he'd just be replaced by the next guy who wants to do the same thing and also doesn't care if he's made a martyr in the process. Strategically, they have to destroy the entirety of Hamas and hope the Palestinians are allowed to and do elect better leadership. An…

> don't think killing Sinwar means much. Israel definitely wanted him dead but, to their national security, it doesn't mean anything

You don't think the next jackass who pitches an October 7th attack won't get second thoughts from his lieutenants when they consider that all of them will be killed, their friends and families--best case--rendered homeless, their cause set back decades, all while Israel suffers fewer deaths from the entire operation than Hamas was able to notch on its one day of glory?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#785

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:36 AM UTC

YZF wrote: post #736

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what would you do if you're Israel? Let in the food. Flood Gaza with food, actually, so it stops being a recruitment tool for militants.

If that solved the problem I would endorse it. I don't see how it does or how you do it. How do you get food to all of Gaza while there is raging fighting? The biggest problem is in Gaza city where there is intense fighting. The southern areas have a lot more food. How do we flood Gaza city with food? Ceasefire? We had one. Then what? Let's plan this in more detail. Who is going to distribute the food in Gaza? Who in…

> How do you get food to all of Gaza while there is raging fighting?

Berlin airdrop and pile it up at the borders from trucks for starters.

> southern areas have a lot more food

But not enough. Start there. Also, if you make food plentiful enough in the south, it will find its way north. The point, again, isn't just to starve the famine. It's also to reduce the value of food as a recruiting tool.

> How is the hostage problem resolved? How do we get Hamas to not rule over Gaza any more?

Not relevant to not starving people!

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#786

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:37 AM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #720

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what would you do if you're Israel? Let in the food. Flood Gaza with food, actually, so it stops being a recruitment tool for militants.

in this case they divert more desirable goods that they sell and make aid agencies pay protection money for "securing shipments". as example, there was a story on Israeli news a couple of months ago, about some NGO that setup a new aid distribution network. One day they got some of their people killed in Gaza and received a phone call demanding payment "or else"

> there was a story on Israeli news

Was it credible? Who made the phone call?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#787

Post by interstice » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:38 AM UTC

andrewcamel wrote: post #776

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

What response would you suggest for Israel? My understanding is their civilian vs combatant ratio is lower than comparable urban conflicts. So it’s hard to respond “softer”. Population adjusted, 10/7 was 10x+ worse than 9/11. Challenging to expect zero response. So what else is there?

Would you happen to have sources for this?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#788

Post by mikeen » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:50 AM UTC

estearum wrote: post #673

mikeen wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, what's happening is that you are describing pro-Palestinian protests as pro-Hamas and then acting confused. You only confused yourself! Hamas is absolutely a terrorist organization but Israel has revealed itself as a terrorist state. I hold one to a higher bar because I pay for the bombs that one side drops.

A terrorist state does not need to be "baited" to attack.

It is absolutely correct to hold the state to higher standards, regardless of what you pay for. But it is not correct to refuse state's right to defend itself, when it is attacked by a terrorist semi-state that not only does not care about its people, but actively using them as bait. This only incentivizing Hamas to keep using Palestinians as bait, and to turn more of them into "martyrs".

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#789

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:50 AM UTC

andrewcamel wrote: post #776

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

What response would you suggest for Israel? My understanding is their civilian vs combatant ratio is lower than comparable urban conflicts. So it’s hard to respond “softer”. Population adjusted, 10/7 was 10x+ worse than 9/11. Challenging to expect zero response. So what else is there?

[deleted]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#790

Post by falconroar » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:04 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #115

“Israel has built the most efficient starvation machine you can imagine.” There's political opposition to this within Israel. Here's what happened to an elected member of the Knesset who spoke out against the cruelty in Gaza.[1] He was forcibly removed from the podium of the Knesset. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDxV7jnAos

A Pew poll in 2022 found that about half (48%) of Israeli Jews agree that Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel. Horrifying statistic.