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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

cnn.com

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#531

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rgblambda wrote: post #513
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel funds Hamas Funded. Past tense. We funded the Mujahideen, once, and then got bombed by their successors.

The Taliban had very little overlap in membership with the Mujahedeen. They were their successors in the sense that they overthrew them. The Mujahedeen did not morph into or rebrand as the Taliban. In fact they became the Northern Alliance, opposed to the Taliban.

> Taliban had very little overlap in membership with the Mujahedeen

Taliban didn't bomb America. Al Qaeda did. I believe bin Laden was in the Mujahideen.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#532

Post by pbreit »

wffurr wrote: post #528
pbreit wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Fall in line with what exactly? Living under military occupation? Denied statehood by having their borders controlled? Being forcibly relocated out of Gaza? As the GP said, there needs to be an actual alternative.

Not sure what you mean by "military occupation". The military was for the most part not in Gaza itself. Not all borders were controlled (why do they even want to cross over to Israel?).

Israel is here to stay. Gazans need to an accept that and try to progress towards civilized society. And Hamas definitely needs to go.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#533

Post by Braxton1980 »

BJones12 wrote: post #478
wat10000 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this particular (supposed) definition change matter here ? Because if it doesn't, pushback by the aggressor is heinous and obviously disingenuous even if your abstract love of accuracy means you happen to agree with the objection.

From my understanding there is an argument about whether 12% or 16% of children meet a certain threshold of food availability, which affects whether or not it is called a famine. One is regarded as not a famine, one is regarded as a famine, and there is argument over what data to use. And the definition does matter, because 'famine' has the meaning of a certain level of bad thing happening. If we do not preserve the…

The use of percentage here can really mask the scope of a problem.

A village of 100 people where 50% are starving is better than a country of 1,000,000 where 10% are.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#534

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dotancohen wrote: post #512
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's war initiated by Hamas Takes two to tango. Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. (No later than after Sinwar was killed.)

> Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. The war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned. When Hamas believes that the war no longer makes sense, then they are invited to return the hostages and the war will end.

> war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned

Not really. Hamas should unilaterally return the hostages. They're not getting any negotiating points by keeping them.

But Israel prosecuting the war as it has is permanently debilitating its long-term security and economic prospects. (Its zenith was probably after its Iranian bombing campaign. Tel Aviv should have withdrawn then and fallen back to targeted bombings of Hamas leadership.)

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#535

Post by Braxton1980 »

moogly wrote: post #308
glonq wrote: post #153

"Israel accused the IPC of lowering the second threshold of acutely malnourished children for a famine declaration, which the IPC has denied." Damn, Israel is really arguing about how much child starvation they are allowed to inflict before it becomes egregious? That might be another one of those "are we the baddies?" moments right there.

[flagged]

But the acceptance of the deal is up to Hamas and not the people starving.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#536

Post by LinXitoW »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #417
phgn wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN calls it a genocide now. What evidence more do you need?

> UN calls it a genocide now One, really important to specify that the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel said this, not the UN as a whole. "The UN" is generally held to be the General Assembly. Two, I'm not disputing that it probably is a genocide. I'm just saying that people have been calling it a genocide well before we had ev…

People called a genocide because if we wait for it to be bad enough to be called a genocide by even the most cynical person, too many people have died.

Quite frankly, the genocide of the Jewish people in Germany also started far sooner than just the final solution. But I guess "Never again" is just fancy words for pretenders.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#537

Post by LinXitoW »

starik36 wrote: post #97

* * *

Well, hows the "peace" in the West Bank, where there's no Hamas? Israel has proven in both the West Bank AND Gaza that they do not care whether you violently resist or you attempt to be peaceful. You WILL BE REMOVED from your land, dispossessed of everything you own, because growing the Israeli people is more important than your life, your rights, your anything.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#538

Post by LinXitoW »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #383
C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?

> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now Hamas has. If you put this deal to a plebescite in Gaza, do you really think they'd vote for more war?

If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#539

Post by [deleted] »

munk-a wrote: post #320
fatbird wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has a federal party since 1991, the Bloc Québécois, "devoted to Quebecois nationalism, social democracy, and the promotion of Quebecois sovereignty."[0] They're explicitly separatist by policy. Quebec's last attempt at attaining sovereignty was a provincial referendum in 1995 that lost by 0.5%. Had it succeeded, the provincial gov't was prepared to declare full independence the next day. [0] https://en.wikiped…

As a Canadian I'd also say that having such a party is a huge boon to the country. Separatists are going to separatist - your choice, as a nation, is whether to allow them to organize and have their voices heard within the system of politics or whether to force them to resort to violence and underground organization. Those underground separatist groups will always exist but giving formal political representation to t…

[deleted]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#540

Post by JumpCrisscross »

LightBug1 wrote: post #506
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> can understand why desperate people, whose land is increasingly stolen, whose rights are increasingly abused, and who cannot see their lives improve would turn (or be turned) to an organisation who would ultimately commit such abhorrent acts

I can't. It doesn't work and makes you the bad guy. Even if just temporarily, that's enough for the other side to exploit. It's always been enough for the other side to exploit. Terrorism has a terrible track record for a reason.

That said, I challenge the premise. Palestinians didn't vote for October 7th. They didn't vote to suspend elections. They voted to kick Fatah out.

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