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Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

abc15.com

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Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#191

Post by MountDoom »

diggan wrote: post #172
perihelions wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "stay 100m away from tall structures" But then how do you deliver to the upper floors of vertical buildings? That must be half the near-term market for these kinds of drones: people in dense, urban areas well-served by local droneports, who are looking for convenience above all else. If you can't safely manage urban canyons—you can't manage. It'd be like selling self-driving cars that are only approved for private…

> But then how do you deliver to the upper floors of vertical buildings? Maybe asking the obvious, do you need to? Why not drop the package downstairs, people can use the elevator like normal people? Assuming there is some sort of hand-off with identification.

Many parts of Europe solved it in a more low-tech way: street-side parcel lockers unlocked with your phone. Massively reduces delivery cost (i.e., one driver can deliver far more packages per hour), is pretty convenient and safe (no packages left unattended), and best of all, doesn't require a fleet of UAVs.

You can pretty naturally extend this once you have self-driving vans.

I think Amazon has a proprietary version of this in some parts of the US, but at least where I live, the lockers are a car drive away, which defeats the purpose.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#192

Post by asdff »

UltraSane wrote: post #178
JKCalhoun wrote: post #162

Trying too hard to push a Jetson’s future on us that no one wants… I feel like soon kids will order the cheapest thing on Amazon for the free drone it comes with.

Speak for yourself. I want drones to deliver stuff directly to me.

Would be nice to have a sort of assistant drone. Pop open the sunroof "check how far up the road the traffic jam lasts".

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#193

Post by wat10000 »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #128
jahsome wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious what you'd define "nearby" and "well clear" as in concrete numbers. For the sake of clarity: I am not arguing against your point, nor am I defending Amazon or the tech in any way shape or form.

In non-drone aviation, we require vehicles to be separated from each other by 5 nautical miles horizontally and 2,000 feet vertically. Additionally every area of the planet they fly over has an MSA figure - Minimum Safe Altitude - which is supposed to guarantee 1000 feet clearance over any obstacles or terrain. Both of these allow healthy margins of error, whether that error is from a human pilot or ATC, or from comp…

At least in the US, minimum separation is for when you're talking to air traffic control, and MSA is for flying on instruments. Minimum separation when you can see outside and aren't talking to ATC is "don't hit other planes." Minimum altitude is 500ft, or 1000ft over "congested areas," plus 500ft distance from any obstacle. Unless you're flying a helicopter (or powered parachute or hang glider) in which case the only requirement is "the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface."

It would make sense for a quadcopter to follow helicopter rules. Obviously it does not follow the "without hazard" requirement if you crash into cables, though.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#194

Post by MaxikCZ »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #175
crazygringo wrote: post #102

To be clear, they crashed into the vertical cable hanging down from the end of the crane. Not into the structure of the crane itself. So it's not as bad as "they don't see cranes". But it absolutely raises the question of whether they can see cables , whether hanging from cranes or spanning telephone poles. And honestly, cables are really hard to see in the air. That's literally why high-voltage power lines hang thos…

The solution is don't use delivery drones.

Or cranes, right?

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#195

Post by bb611 »

foobarbecue wrote: post #190
numpad0 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying machines are never to be flown near cables. It's not like human pilots on a helicopter can detect and avoid the cables in the first place. Long-distance transmission wires are sometimes inspected with helicopters, so I guess there are exceptions and protocols, but outside those, flying machines just aren't supposed to fly near cables except for explicit intent to catch them. Especially across or under. You may…

Yeah. Friend of mine was a news helicopter pilot and he had one of these systems that will cut a cable if you hit one by accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6CsNqhAeeQ . Better than getting tangled, I guess.

On the other hand, sometimes cutting the cable is at least as dangerous as causing the aircraft to crash, for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash

The only safe system is for aircraft to avoid wires.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#196

Post by WrongOnInternet »

numpad0 wrote: post #170
crazygringo wrote: post #102

To be clear, they crashed into the vertical cable hanging down from the end of the crane. Not into the structure of the crane itself. So it's not as bad as "they don't see cranes". But it absolutely raises the question of whether they can see cables , whether hanging from cranes or spanning telephone poles. And honestly, cables are really hard to see in the air. That's literally why high-voltage power lines hang thos…

Flying machines are never to be flown near cables. It's not like human pilots on a helicopter can detect and avoid the cables in the first place. Long-distance transmission wires are sometimes inspected with helicopters, so I guess there are exceptions and protocols, but outside those, flying machines just aren't supposed to fly near cables except for explicit intent to catch them. Especially across or under. You may…

Some crop dusters fly under telephone wires. Not that its a good idea, but some do.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#197

Post by FpUser »

foobarbecue wrote: post #190
numpad0 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying machines are never to be flown near cables. It's not like human pilots on a helicopter can detect and avoid the cables in the first place. Long-distance transmission wires are sometimes inspected with helicopters, so I guess there are exceptions and protocols, but outside those, flying machines just aren't supposed to fly near cables except for explicit intent to catch them. Especially across or under. You may…

Yeah. Friend of mine was a news helicopter pilot and he had one of these systems that will cut a cable if you hit one by accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6CsNqhAeeQ . Better than getting tangled, I guess.

What they show on video does not protect props. Dumbest invention ever. Never mind that the idea of cutting cable is even worse.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#198

Post by toss1 »

infecto wrote: post #68
potato3732842 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any modern roofer or other worker that could fall far is wearing a safety harness (with some exceptions for flat roofs that have railing set up).

I am going to wager that 90% of resi roofers are not using harnesses unless the pitch of the roof is extreme. It’s all about the couch cushion.

YUP

Was working for a construction guy I overall respected, and he had us going up on a 3-story barn roof without any kind of roped-in protection. Although I was a fairly experienced rock climber (or perhaps because of it), I quit at lunch.

I was very lucky to have had the opportunity to have the backup finances to be able to afford to quit.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#199

Post by tlavoie »

infecto wrote: post #68
potato3732842 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any modern roofer or other worker that could fall far is wearing a safety harness (with some exceptions for flat roofs that have railing set up).

I am going to wager that 90% of resi roofers are not using harnesses unless the pitch of the roof is extreme. It’s all about the couch cushion.

A coworker (also works from home) had some commotion across the street, when one of the roofers on his neighbour's place went off the second-story roof. All these guys were wearing harnesses, but not clipped in. The one who fell was luck in that he hit a garden shed roof rather than another 8' to the concrete, but was definitely hurt. Fire department came, yelled at these guys for being idiots. Roofers said they'd comply, and once the FD left, went back to what they were doing. This is right after losing a guy to a fall.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#200

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

crazygringo wrote: post #102

To be clear, they crashed into the vertical cable hanging down from the end of the crane. Not into the structure of the crane itself. So it's not as bad as "they don't see cranes". But it absolutely raises the question of whether they can see cables , whether hanging from cranes or spanning telephone poles. And honestly, cables are really hard to see in the air. That's literally why high-voltage power lines hang thos…

just... don't fly near active construction sites?
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