Live data from Hacker News

Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

finance.yahoo.com

51–60 of 136 posts

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#51
post #7

Seems like a good time to mention my old stand-by: There is no such thing as a labor shortage. There may very well be a shortage of qualified people willing to work under the conditions and for the compensation a company would like to provide. When stated that way you can see that there are several levers to pull, the most obvious being compensation.

your old stand-by doesn't make any sense "there is no such thing as a labour shortage" is totally represented by a shortage of qualified people for the given compensation. This is the basis of every economics supply & demand graph, where explicitly refer to the misalignment as a surplus or shortage.

That qualifier, "for the given compensation", being implicit is what confuses things.

It would make sense to say something like, "There is a shortage of skilled workers willing to work for $1 per hour", and no-one would be likely to argue with that - there certainly is a terrible shortage of such workers! But that makes it clear that the problem is the compensation, not the available workers.

If you just say "There is a shortage of skilled workers" without that context, it becomes a incomplete statement from an economics perspective, and the GP is essentially objecting to that and pointing out that once you take the necessary context into account, the problem is not some sort of more general shortage of workers.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#52
post #7

Seems like a good time to mention my old stand-by: There is no such thing as a labor shortage. There may very well be a shortage of qualified people willing to work under the conditions and for the compensation a company would like to provide. When stated that way you can see that there are several levers to pull, the most obvious being compensation.

99% of the time, I agree with you. But hypothetically, what would you call a situation where 20 companies would all be willing to pay salaries of $1 million/year to fill 10,000 open positions that required 5 years of training, but there are only 5,000 people who have that training? Would that be a "labor shortage"? It seems your solution works for companies willing to pay more to poach from other companies, but might…

I would call it posturing. If these companies really needed to fill these openings, they wouldn't raise an offering they know they won't pay ; they would train in-house.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#53

For this to be the CEO of Ford in particular is interesting because this is part of their founding narrative. Whether it holds up to historical scrutiny isn't something I can answer but the lore is that Henry Ford purposely paid more than market for his laborers with the idea that he'd get his pick and then those workers would then buy Fords with that money because they knew they were the best cars built by the best…

Wasn't there some law suit from Chrysler, who tried to _stop_ him doing that? Presumably because it would give workers too much wage setting power in the market?

[deleted]

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#54

It is ridiculous to have American workers and Chinese workers doing essentially the same job, at the same quality, while their salaries differ enormously. American (and European) automotive companies will never be able to compete long term in any market which allows competition between Chinese and American (or European) cars. The labor of an auto worker is not worth that much and only by banning competition can Ameri…

Maybe China is the one that will find their labor compensation unsustainable?

In a world with a globalized economy it is a total abnormality that workers who are globally average are getting compensated far above the global average salary. Workers who have such demands can only exist because of very specific historical circumstances.

Chinese workers are much closer to earning what you would expect the globally average worker to earn.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#56
post #40
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such thing as a labor shortage. Of course there isn't. This is out of touch employers saying "Nobody wants to work for $1 an hour, so must mean there's a shortage." It's wild, that same in the service industry, restaraunts for example paying 1/2 dollars an hour and then putting the onus onto the customers to pay in tips. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-its-like-to-work-at-waf... It's ridiculous, Ge…

It is not even that. Plenty dont have a choice and participate in rackets. It is not like they were swimming in money and riches But some places are worst then rackets the town nearby.

> Plenty dont have a choice and participate in rackets

I do appreciate that, but seems to me that the path towards change (CEO epiphanies) is for as many people as possible boycott the job.. It's a mentality change and I'm glad to see GenZ and others pushing to change it.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#57

That Ford CEO is stupid. There's no "shortage" of workers. Corporations are expecting other people to train their employees past entry level and pay these people with midlevel experience like badly paid unskilled laborers. Nobody is investing years of their time and large sums of money to get trained up for a shitty job? SURPRISE SURPRISE If you won't take an average person with no knowledge of your industry and trai…

Every junior I've brought in over the past 7 years or so with the expectation of training them has immediately left after I've invested not only money but also significant amounts of more experienced developers time to bring them up to speed before I managed to recoup anything useful for that investment. I can already hear people say pay more, but that isn't up to me and besides that if we're going that route why not…

A big part of them leaving is the fact that the wages aren't actually that great.

I'm a programmer and have far less buying power than a Kmart cashier from the 70s had. I don't get a pension. They did.

There's no loyalty because we're all poor compared to every previous generation besides those literally living in log cabins.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but I do think the modern culture of company hopping is contributing to this. As a leader entrusted to make good decisions for the company, you must consider this reality. At a previous company we hired a lot of junior engineers with the idea that our relatively high pay and reasonably good work would help us build a strong generation of seniors a few years down the road. What we mostly found was th…

What's the structural solution to this? Offer golden handcuffs to stay for x years? - "We'll train you, and if you stay the full 8 years you get a $500,000 bonus"? - "Here's a $200,000 signing bonus, which you have to pay back if you leave before 8 years" I'd be hesitant to rely on these as a candidate, because I'd have to assume I'd get fired at year 6-7 or something so that the company could save money.

>What's the structural solution to this? Offer golden handcuffs to stay for x years?

Be a good place to work with competitive pay so your employees want to stay.

Consider training a part of the compensation instead of an investment you expect returns on.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#59
post #7

Seems like a good time to mention my old stand-by: There is no such thing as a labor shortage. There may very well be a shortage of qualified people willing to work under the conditions and for the compensation a company would like to provide. When stated that way you can see that there are several levers to pull, the most obvious being compensation.

> When stated that way you can see that there are several levers to pull, the most obvious being compensation.

Ford's profit margin was 1.7%. Lots of innovative/productive American companies since 1970 for workers to aspire to = the enterprise can't continue.

Re: Ford CEO on his ‘epiphany’ after talking to factory workers in 2023

#60
post #18
post #7

Seems like a good time to mention my old stand-by: There is no such thing as a labor shortage. There may very well be a shortage of qualified people willing to work under the conditions and for the compensation a company would like to provide. When stated that way you can see that there are several levers to pull, the most obvious being compensation.

> There is no such thing as a labor shortage. Of course there isn't. This is out of touch employers saying "Nobody wants to work for $1 an hour, so must mean there's a shortage." It's wild, that same in the service industry, restaraunts for example paying 1/2 dollars an hour and then putting the onus onto the customers to pay in tips. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-its-like-to-work-at-waf... It's ridiculous, Ge…

> It's ridiculous, GenZ has just realized they don't want to participate in the racket and I don't blame them.

It's not that they don't want to participate in the racket, it's that the racket literally can not sustain them. Older gens participate in the racket because most of them locked in housing or rents from an era where the racket could support those prices. Gen Z has much higher housing costs that make "the racket" untenable, despite the racket still working fine for older millenials just fine. Housing costs exploding, among other things, has ruined the ability of an entire generation to really thrive or ever have a chance of doing better than their parents.

Post reply on HN