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Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

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Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#231

Post by thrance »

wastle wrote: post #213
thrance wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most historical feminists would be labelled TERFs today, just like the most liberal 19th century politicians would be seen as conservative. Who cares? > TERFS are still feminists. You can't be a feminist and side with the people standing against legal abortions, lesbian marriage, gender equality, equal opportunity, equal pay, equal access to education, etc. Simple as that. The conservative idea of a woman is one of…

Hitler was a vegetarian. This does not imply that vegetarians in general are siding with Nazis. To assert that would be an error of logic. You're making a similarly incorrect fallacy of association between TERFs and anti-feminist conservatives.

If vegetarians did side with Hitler, then yeah, I would have an issue with them as a group. But that's completely different, can't you see? TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates, a lot of whom hold anti-feminist views. That's the issue.

Again, and please read it this time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#232

Post by wastle »

thrance wrote: post #230
wastle wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. JK Rowling is a good counterexample to your claim, as are the women who brought the FWS case to the UK's Supreme Court (and won), and as are so many other women whose feminist advocacy involves this topic.

JK Rowling accused Nigel Farage of being too "woke", which suggests multiple interesting facts about her political views: * She thinks "woke" is a bad word, which would put her on the right. * She thinks Reform UK is woke, which puts her on the far right. * She's a very confused person, which I would expect from someone claiming to be a feminist while making her prejudice against an already persecuted minority her wh…

> JK Rowling accused Nigel Farage of being too "woke"

No she didn't.

What she actually said, in response to someone expressing surprise that Farage supports incarcerating males in the female prison estate, was this:

"Genuinely surprised anyone's shocked by this. Just because huge swathes of the left have revealed themselves to be dripping in misogyny doesn't mean a massive chunk of the right doesn't remain exactly as indifferent to women's rights and issues as it's always been."

She also wrote:

"All those people who tell me support for women's single sex spaces means I must support Reform (which I don't) appear to share exactly the same opinion on women's single-sex spaces as Reform."

Sorry but you've mischaracterised and misquoted her words, and used this to reach a false conclusion.

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#233

Post by wastle »

thrance wrote: post #231
wastle wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitler was a vegetarian. This does not imply that vegetarians in general are siding with Nazis. To assert that would be an error of logic. You're making a similarly incorrect fallacy of association between TERFs and anti-feminist conservatives.

If vegetarians did side with Hitler, then yeah, I would have an issue with them as a group. But that's completely different, can't you see? TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates, a lot of whom hold anti-feminist views. That's the issue. Again, and please read it this time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...

You speak of "all these so-called TERFs", but the article you linked, in the very first sentence, qualifies this with "some":

"Some trans-exclusionary radical feminists have allied with conservative or far-right groups and politicians who oppose legislation that would expand transgender rights in the United States."

As for "TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates", which you claim, the two articles in the citations for the Wikipedia quote above talk about how right-wing groups in the US are listening to feminists on this specific issue. So really it's the opposite way around to what you're saying.

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#234

Post by thrance »

wastle wrote: post #233
thrance wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If vegetarians did side with Hitler, then yeah, I would have an issue with them as a group. But that's completely different, can't you see? TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates, a lot of whom hold anti-feminist views. That's the issue. Again, and please read it this time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...

You speak of "all these so-called TERFs", but the article you linked, in the very first sentence, qualifies this with "some": " Some trans-exclusionary radical feminists have allied with conservative or far-right groups and politicians who oppose legislation that would expand transgender rights in the United States. " As for "TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates", which you claim, the t…

Wow, you really got me with that "some". Are you seriously now claiming that TERFs aren't mostly found on the right? Ever heard of a left-wing TERF? I won't waste anymore time arguing with someone who refuses basic facts. The truth is, that TERFs have done nothing to further the feminist cause. At best they give ammos to the right, who in this day and age, is acting openly anti-feminist, and amping up rhetoric against an already stigmatized minority who is 4 times as likely to be on the receiving end of violent crimes.

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#236

Post by account42 »

squigz wrote: post #105
trwcock wrote: post #7

Is programming lame enough yet that we can get away from everything being done by hr and get back to doing cool things with weird people?

The irony of deriding CoCs while reminiscing about doing things with "weird people" "Weird people" being discriminated against and harassed is why CoCs exist.

Quite the opposite, the whole point of CoCs is to get actually weird people (i.e. nerds) out of projects and replace them with cultural conformists that all use the same kinds of symbols and language in their bio to describe just how unique they are.

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#237

Post by account42 »

squigz wrote: post #102
pjc50 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things that falls apart on the actual content. If you have a trans contributor and someone who comes in with trans-eliminationist rhetoric, you can't then turn round and say the trans person is being "inflexible" for refusing to work with them.

Someone will say that that person shouldn't be bringing any sort of politics into it, so they should be removed, no CoCs needed for that. Then someone will point out that they might have this stuff on their Github profile, or website. They're free to do so, of course. But it would be wrong to remove them for that, right? But then any trans contributor that sees this crap is what, forced to work with them anyway?

Too bad. People you interact with every day have views that are abhorrent to you. Suck it up. The community is not your internet police.

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#238

Post by [deleted] »

thrance wrote: post #234
wastle wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak of "all these so-called TERFs", but the article you linked, in the very first sentence, qualifies this with "some": " Some trans-exclusionary radical feminists have allied with conservative or far-right groups and politicians who oppose legislation that would expand transgender rights in the United States. " As for "TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates", which you claim, the t…

Wow, you really got me with that "some". Are you seriously now claiming that TERFs aren't mostly found on the right? Ever heard of a left-wing TERF? I won't waste anymore time arguing with someone who refuses basic facts. The truth is, that TERFs have done nothing to further the feminist cause. At best they give ammos to the right, who in this day and age, is acting openly anti-feminist, and amping up rhetoric agains…

[deleted]

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#239

Post by [deleted] »

thrance wrote: post #234
wastle wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak of "all these so-called TERFs", but the article you linked, in the very first sentence, qualifies this with "some": " Some trans-exclusionary radical feminists have allied with conservative or far-right groups and politicians who oppose legislation that would expand transgender rights in the United States. " As for "TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates", which you claim, the t…

Wow, you really got me with that "some". Are you seriously now claiming that TERFs aren't mostly found on the right? Ever heard of a left-wing TERF? I won't waste anymore time arguing with someone who refuses basic facts. The truth is, that TERFs have done nothing to further the feminist cause. At best they give ammos to the right, who in this day and age, is acting openly anti-feminist, and amping up rhetoric agains…

[deleted]

Re: Heavy codes of conduct are unnecessary for open source projects

#240

Post by [deleted] »

thrance wrote: post #234
wastle wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak of "all these so-called TERFs", but the article you linked, in the very first sentence, qualifies this with "some": " Some trans-exclusionary radical feminists have allied with conservative or far-right groups and politicians who oppose legislation that would expand transgender rights in the United States. " As for "TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates", which you claim, the t…

Wow, you really got me with that "some". Are you seriously now claiming that TERFs aren't mostly found on the right? Ever heard of a left-wing TERF? I won't waste anymore time arguing with someone who refuses basic facts. The truth is, that TERFs have done nothing to further the feminist cause. At best they give ammos to the right, who in this day and age, is acting openly anti-feminist, and amping up rhetoric agains…

[deleted]
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