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Jane Goodall has died

latimes.com

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Re: Jane Goodall has died

#41

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

Cuuugi wrote: post #32
alsetmusic wrote: post #22

That's sad news. She completely changed the way we thought about primate intelligence. Fun fact: she really liked the Far Side cartoon about her. https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/...

The full saga is humourous. from wiki. Gary Larson cartoon incident One of Gary Larson's Far Side cartoons shows two chimpanzees grooming. One finds a blonde human hair on the other and inquires, "Conducting a little more 'research' with that Jane Goodall tramp?"[114] Goodall herself was in Africa at the time. The Jane Goodall Institute thought the cartoon was in bad taste and had its lawyers draft a letter to Larson…

> In 1988, when Larson visited Goodall's research facility in Tanzania,[115] he was attacked by a chimpanzee named Frodo.

That last sentence is missing from the Wikipedia page. What is the source on it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Far_Side#Jane_Goodall_cart...

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#42

Post by revjx »

I saw her talk in London earlier this year. She was hilarious, eloquent, and inspiring. I found listening to her quite moving in a way I hadn't anticipated.

Remarkable woman. I feel thankful to have had the chance to just stand there and listen to her and look around at all the other rapt faces around me.

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#43

Post by fullstop »

inglor_cz wrote: post #28

The gap between us and the chimpanzees is, at the same time, "tantalizingly small" and "too big". We have learnt to communicate with them, but they also don't seem to ask questions, at least not the way that humans do. There is obvious intelligence in their eyes and deliberation in their movements, but they seem to be content with an almost static culture. Which was also true for the Neanderthals. What was the last s…

This was ages ago when I was in college, but the theory then was the ability to walk upright freed our hands to do other things. Chimps primarily knuckle-walk, so they can't easily carry objects (food, tools, etc) from point A to point B.

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#44

Post by dmd »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #41
Cuuugi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full saga is humourous. from wiki. Gary Larson cartoon incident One of Gary Larson's Far Side cartoons shows two chimpanzees grooming. One finds a blonde human hair on the other and inquires, "Conducting a little more 'research' with that Jane Goodall tramp?"[114] Goodall herself was in Africa at the time. The Jane Goodall Institute thought the cartoon was in bad taste and had its lawyers draft a letter to Larson…

> In 1988, when Larson visited Goodall's research facility in Tanzania,[115] he was attacked by a chimpanzee named Frodo. That last sentence is missing from the Wikipedia page. What is the source on it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Far_Side#Jane_Goodall_cart...

It's mentioned here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasakela_chimpanzee_community

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#45

Post by [deleted] »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #41
Cuuugi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full saga is humourous. from wiki. Gary Larson cartoon incident One of Gary Larson's Far Side cartoons shows two chimpanzees grooming. One finds a blonde human hair on the other and inquires, "Conducting a little more 'research' with that Jane Goodall tramp?"[114] Goodall herself was in Africa at the time. The Jane Goodall Institute thought the cartoon was in bad taste and had its lawyers draft a letter to Larson…

> In 1988, when Larson visited Goodall's research facility in Tanzania,[115] he was attacked by a chimpanzee named Frodo. That last sentence is missing from the Wikipedia page. What is the source on it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Far_Side#Jane_Goodall_cart...

[deleted]

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#46

Post by sjburt »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #41
Cuuugi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full saga is humourous. from wiki. Gary Larson cartoon incident One of Gary Larson's Far Side cartoons shows two chimpanzees grooming. One finds a blonde human hair on the other and inquires, "Conducting a little more 'research' with that Jane Goodall tramp?"[114] Goodall herself was in Africa at the time. The Jane Goodall Institute thought the cartoon was in bad taste and had its lawyers draft a letter to Larson…

> In 1988, when Larson visited Goodall's research facility in Tanzania,[115] he was attacked by a chimpanzee named Frodo. That last sentence is missing from the Wikipedia page. What is the source on it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Far_Side#Jane_Goodall_cart...

On the Jane Goodall page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall#Gary_Larson_carto...

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#47

Post by inglor_cz »

DFHippie wrote: post #38
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

The gap between us and the chimpanzees is, at the same time, "tantalizingly small" and "too big". We have learnt to communicate with them, but they also don't seem to ask questions, at least not the way that humans do. There is obvious intelligence in their eyes and deliberation in their movements, but they seem to be content with an almost static culture. Which was also true for the Neanderthals. What was the last s…

For most of human history cultural change was extremely slow, so slow as to be imperceptible. I'm not sure the neanderthals experienced any less dynamic a culture than the modern humans living at the same time. Perhaps expecting change makes change more likely. Also, when things are scarce and life is tenuous you are less likely to experiment. Why waste the resources? Why take the risk? When surplus calories became c…

"Also, when things are scarce and life is tenuous you are less likely to experiment. Why waste the resources? Why take the risk? When surplus calories became commonplace is when cultural change took off."

True, but not the entire picture either. From what we know, even hunters and gatherers living in inhospitable regions have a rich oral culture and extensive pantheons of gods, demigods and legendary heroes. There seems to be something in us humans that yearns for more than just calories.

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#48

Post by AlotOfReading »

DFHippie wrote: post #38
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

The gap between us and the chimpanzees is, at the same time, "tantalizingly small" and "too big". We have learnt to communicate with them, but they also don't seem to ask questions, at least not the way that humans do. There is obvious intelligence in their eyes and deliberation in their movements, but they seem to be content with an almost static culture. Which was also true for the Neanderthals. What was the last s…

For most of human history cultural change was extremely slow, so slow as to be imperceptible. I'm not sure the neanderthals experienced any less dynamic a culture than the modern humans living at the same time. Perhaps expecting change makes change more likely. Also, when things are scarce and life is tenuous you are less likely to experiment. Why waste the resources? Why take the risk? When surplus calories became c…

I'm pretty skeptical that cultural change was meaningfully slower (except as limited by effective population sizes). Cultural change for early humans is nearly invisible in the material record. Imagine that all archaeologists of the far future find nothing from the current era except iphones without working storage. Do they indicate a unified global culture without cultural change outside WWDC?

Obviously not, even though there are aspects of a shared global culture indicated by their global distribution. Material culture is related to culture, but it's an imperfect and imprecise record. The same issue occurs with correlating culture with genetics or language.

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#49

Post by technothrasher »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #27
butlike wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, technically apes don't have tails, monkeys do, so the chimpanzee talk would be an ape talk. Learned that from her too

"If it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey, even if it has a monkey-kind-of shape. It if doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey; if it doesn't have a tail it's not a monkey: it's an ape."

With the one exception being Curious George.

Re: Jane Goodall has died

#50

Post by bee_rider »

inglor_cz wrote: post #28

The gap between us and the chimpanzees is, at the same time, "tantalizingly small" and "too big". We have learnt to communicate with them, but they also don't seem to ask questions, at least not the way that humans do. There is obvious intelligence in their eyes and deliberation in their movements, but they seem to be content with an almost static culture. Which was also true for the Neanderthals. What was the last s…

What’s this about Neanderthals?
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