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I only use Google Sheets

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Re: I only use Google Sheets

#181

Post by goostavos »

thesuitonym wrote: post #100
corry wrote: post #59

Always overlooked point in these pro/anti-spreadsheet discussions: A spreadsheet gives you a DB, a quickly and easily customized UI, and iterative / easy-to-debug data processing all in a package that everyone in the working world already understands. AND with a freedom that allows the creator to do it however they want. AND it's fairly portable. You can build incredible things in spreadsheets. I remain convinced tha…

Another oft overlooked point is that anti-spreadsheet people aren't actually against using spreadsheets, we just want our coworkers to stop placing mission critical operations in an enormous, half-baked spreadsheet that exists only in some long-since retired users home directory.

One of the surprising things about working inside of $MegaCorp is that if you knock on enough doors, you'll eventually find that each org has, like, one dude* with a spread sheet that powers everything else. Teams will get spun up to try to "automate" this spreadsheet, but, on a long enough time horizon, the spreadsheet wins.

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#182

Post by fsckboy »

jasode wrote: post #126
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't Microsoft Access basically that? There's also Google's AppSheet, which may be that too.

>Wasn't Microsoft Access basically that? No because the datagrid in MS Access is too rigid and doesn't have the extensive slice-&-dice features of MS Excel. My first consulting gig was creating customized MS Access applications. Despite that experience, I use MS Excel today because I know that MS Access is too limiting.

>>Wasn't Microsoft Access basically that?

>No because the datagrid in MS Access is too rigid and doesn't have the extensive slice-&-dice features of MS Excel.

i'm not saying it worked or worked well, but i'm pretty sure the point of Access in the office suite was so that you could access Access (get the clever marketing?) data from within Excel and then do all the excel things you were used to.

anyone know if that worked or didn't? DDE and all those other projects were always pursuing this as a dream

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#183

Post by saulpw »

mft_ wrote: post #18

I've long argued that spreadsheets are essentially a structured programming tool for people that would never imagine they could or would program. And maybe even a gateway drug in a proportion of cases?

The problem is that spreadsheets are an unstructured programming tool. It's like BASIC with all its GOTOs, index-only loops, etc vs C with proper functions and control structures. You can have a structured spreadsheet but it requires discipline that almost no person (and certainly no organization) has.

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#184

Post by citizenpaul »

thesuitonym wrote: post #100
corry wrote: post #59

Always overlooked point in these pro/anti-spreadsheet discussions: A spreadsheet gives you a DB, a quickly and easily customized UI, and iterative / easy-to-debug data processing all in a package that everyone in the working world already understands. AND with a freedom that allows the creator to do it however they want. AND it's fairly portable. You can build incredible things in spreadsheets. I remain convinced tha…

Another oft overlooked point is that anti-spreadsheet people aren't actually against using spreadsheets, we just want our coworkers to stop placing mission critical operations in an enormous, half-baked spreadsheet that exists only in some long-since retired users home directory.

Excel, creating job security since 1997.

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#185

Post by breadwinner »

gregates wrote: post #179
breadwinner wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to give them a tool that's as easy to use as a spreadsheet, and yet stores data in a relational database. There are plenty of spreadsheet-database hybrids in the market.

Are any of them as easy to use as a spreadsheet?

I would say Airtable is. Or if your users are slightly more technical you can try https://visualdb.com/ because it lets you use your own Postgres instance as the backend db.

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#186

Post by compiler-guy »

breadwinner wrote: post #180
compiler-guy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is far easier to work your way into programming via spreadsheets than via sql. One day you are writing ‘sum(a2:a201)’ the next you do some conditional formatting and so the complexity builds up very slowly with your needs. With sql, day one: ‘SELECT SUM(Column) AS Total FROM Table;‘ Way more complicated. Way more powerful too, but most people don’t need the power until much later. And you have to work in the conso…

That's not true, you can use Airtable to get the ease of use of a spreadsheet with the robustness of a database.

And now you have two problems. It’s not just SQL that you have to learn, but airtable. Which probably isn’t installed anywhere.

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#187

Post by citizenpaul »

jader201 wrote: post #136
thesuitonym wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another oft overlooked point is that anti-spreadsheet people aren't actually against using spreadsheets, we just want our coworkers to stop placing mission critical operations in an enormous, half-baked spreadsheet that exists only in some long-since retired users home directory.

I see these complaints on HN a lot, and maybe it’s anecdotal, but I just don’t see this in the real world these days. If someone shares a sheet with me, it’s for the intended purpose of sharing data and/or visualizations of that data. I’ve always been a huge fan of spreadsheets, and the rare times I’ve encountered them being misused, it was a long time ago, and not near enough to make me an “anti-spreadsheet” person.…

>I just don’t see this in the real world these days

Lol. Go to literally any bank. They all have a legion of accountant,analyists that's sole job is to maintain their little fiefdom of spreadsheets that only they understand.

If most people knew just how held together by string,tape and gum the banking industry is there would be a run on the banks.

There is also always some 75+yo part time guy that maintains some sort of critical system. He always says, "I want to retire but they keep throwing more money at me"

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#188

Post by SaintRomuald »

mixcocam wrote: post #24

"Programmers waste enormous amounts of time thinking about, or worrying about, the speed of noncritical parts of their programs, and these attempts at efficiency actually have a strong negative impact when debugging and maintenance are considered. We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that cr…

If you can do something badly and you can do something the right way in the same amount of time, why do it wrong?

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#189

Post by analog31 »

goostavos wrote: post #181
thesuitonym wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another oft overlooked point is that anti-spreadsheet people aren't actually against using spreadsheets, we just want our coworkers to stop placing mission critical operations in an enormous, half-baked spreadsheet that exists only in some long-since retired users home directory.

One of the surprising things about working inside of $MegaCorp is that if you knock on enough doors, you'll eventually find that each org has, like, one dude* with a spread sheet that powers everything else. Teams will get spun up to try to "automate" this spreadsheet, but, on a long enough time horizon, the spreadsheet wins.

And it was probably created without approval.

Re: I only use Google Sheets

#190

Post by umeshunni »

flatcakes wrote: post #53
edoceo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any good tools for automatic backup of these things? How would a non-tech-type do it?

This probably doesn't qualify as a non-tech type answer, but I have a Synology NAS which includes a feature (CloudSync?) to automatically download Google Drive documents in docx, xlsx, etc. format.

Ooh - I have a Synology NAS and didn't realize it can convert files on sync.

It's also ironic that we're considering docx etc as open formats these days.

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