How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#41

Post by gappa » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 6:09 PM UTC

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #32

gappa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually asked Sony Support about that. Their reply: "We can confirm that with Lossless compressed RAW there is a minimal quality loss. To have no impact on image quality I suggest using Uncompressed RAW files." Lossless isn't what it used to be.

Seems you just got 1st line robo-reply repeating what public resources state. Does not say much about actual compression algorithm Sony uses.

Their first reply was "we have passed your question to a higher technical team", then they came back four days later with the above reply. I was enquiring about the A7R mark V, which introduced the much needed "lossless" option. I think I asked because I wondered why they kept the uncompressed option and because experts warned that Sony did that before with "lossless" formats.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#42

Post by crab_galaxy » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 6:27 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #37

vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

> The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a new smartphone that has multiple lenses, out-of-the-box photos will turn out MUCH NICER than from a camera, because initial processing is built into the software. Digital cameras don't have this. You need to take RAW and work pretty hard on it to make the photo look as good as what a smartphone delivers right away.

You’re completely neglecting to highlight Fuji’s film simulations. I use Fuji’s specifically because they produce excellent jpgs out of camera. Not really sure where your take is coming from, an xt3 on auto will blow any smartphone picture FAR out of the water.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#43

Post by adgjlsfhk1 » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 7:01 PM UTC

gappa wrote: post #41

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems you just got 1st line robo-reply repeating what public resources state. Does not say much about actual compression algorithm Sony uses.

Their first reply was "we have passed your question to a higher technical team", then they came back four days later with the above reply. I was enquiring about the A7R mark V, which introduced the much needed "lossless" option. I think I asked because I wondered why they kept the uncompressed option and because experts warned that Sony did that before with "lossless" formats.

It is a shame that Sony has such an obsession with weird proprietary formats.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#44

Post by cogman10 » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 7:50 PM UTC

jcynix wrote: post #38

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #2

There are always these crazy discussions in photo forums where people are arguing that uncompressed RAW files are better than lossless compressed.

These forum discussions seem unconnected to reality IMO. Sometimes funny, more often strange, like audiophile discussions about oxygen free copper cables. Why? The Fuji X-T4 and X-S20 here produce images of 6240x4160 pixels, but I almost never look at images in 1:1. My 4K monitors, mostly set to 2K, display 2560 x 1440 pixels. And even when switch them to their full 4K resolution I don't view my images in 1:1 obvious…

The main reason my wife shoots lossless is touch-up editing in light room. You can rescue some pretty crappy photos when all the sensor data is present.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#45

Post by dsego » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 7:57 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #37

vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

This aligns with my experience as well. The bigger sensor does generate pictures that look more crisp in big prints or zoomed in. In theory it should gather more light, but in reality, phones stitch together multiple exposures, and frequently produce nicer low light images without much noise. For sharing on social media, it's hard to notice a difference. For me its event worse with the x100 since the wide lens doesn't have that signature compression and depth of field, so the photos don't really stand out that much, no wonder most x100 photographers rely on color filters (film sims) and high contrast to draw attention.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#46

Post by tkcranny » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 8:10 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #37

vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

It’s true that phones cameras are miracles of technology, especially considering their size. But I take a modern Fuji traveling because the modern phone camera look is so over-processed and distinct. There’s no faking the real optics a large aperture and sensor gives, the portrait mode on phones is still a poor imitation of the real thing.

Fuji then has the whole film simulation system with all their colour science from the last century. It’s a ton of fun, and the jpgs it produces are distinct and beautiful, and I believe better than 99% of people could achieve from post processing the raws, myself included.

The middle-age guy part is accurate though, I got it as a thirtieth present.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#47

Post by krior » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 8:28 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #37

vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

Even if phone cameras were twice as good, for me its simply more fun to take pictures with my camera.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#48

Post by beAbU » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 9:15 PM UTC

jsheard wrote: post #3

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #2

There are always these crazy discussions in photo forums where people are arguing that uncompressed RAW files are better than lossless compressed.

Glad to hear that audiophiles have some competition in who can invent the most pointless things to split hairs over. The photo guys need to start taping magic rocks to their cameras to really keep up though.

There's probably an untapped market for sd cards with "special" holographic stickers on them retailing for $100 each.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#49

Post by ebbi » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 9:21 PM UTC

vadansky wrote: post #12

the_lucifer wrote: post #6

As someone who shoots on Fujifilm (XT-3), this was an intensely fascinating read. Thanks, now I have half a mind to sit down and re-implement this code, just to get a feel of how it works.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I have an X-T3 and I love it. I went from an X-E2, to a Sony set up, and then quickly went back to Fuji. There's just something about Fuji that made it more enjoyable to shoot, for me (mostly travel photos).

I will say the only thing that gives me FOMO is the lack of the Classic Negative film sim, as a lot of recipes that I see online that I really like uses that film sim as the base.

If what appeals to you about Fuji's are the recipes and film sims, I'd make sure to research which ones you like, and then work out which model has the film sim you need to recreate it.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#50

Post by barnabee » Tue, Sep 30, 2025, 9:50 PM UTC

_7acn wrote: post #37

vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I own 4 Fujifilm cameras and personally, I'd recommend being VERY careful and thinking hard about this purchase. This isn't the same Fujifilm as it used to be. The company was once known for its "Kaizen" approach, which has long since disappeared. Prices are now inflated because they're riding on popularity. Autofocus in Fuji is simply weak. The question is whether you actually need such a camera for anything. With a…

I don’t find this at all, even compared to my (now rather old) X-T1.

For quick shots to remember an event or night out, modern phone cameras are fine.

For anything that I’d call photography and actually want to print, display, etc. I rarely if ever get results I’m really happy with from a phone camera.

If you’re in any way interested in photography beyond taking a few snaps at parties and on holidays, I highly recommend getting a real camera. I’ve found the Fuji system to be great, from the lenses to the out of camera JPEGs and film simulations that mean you can pretty much avoid doing any significant editing or post-processing if, like me, you find that all quite tedious.