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How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

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Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#11

Post by danhau »

manoDev wrote: post #7
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #2

There are always these crazy discussions in photo forums where people are arguing that uncompressed RAW files are better than lossless compressed.

It’s because manufacturers keep inventing their own formats instead of using plain DNG, and you can only figure out the difference reverse engineering the file. Even for the same manufacturer and file type, they may change encoding details between models or firmware revisions. There are situations where they may decrease the bit depth of the final image if there’s not enough dynamic range, there are situations where…

Manufacturers not supporting DNG is so annoying. But of course they do it. Allows them to sell licenses to software vendors like Adobe or Capture One.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#12

Post by vadansky »

the_lucifer wrote: post #6

As someone who shoots on Fujifilm (XT-3), this was an intensely fascinating read. Thanks, now I have half a mind to sit down and re-implement this code, just to get a feel of how it works.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#13

Post by brnt »

manoDev wrote: post #7
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #2

There are always these crazy discussions in photo forums where people are arguing that uncompressed RAW files are better than lossless compressed.

It’s because manufacturers keep inventing their own formats instead of using plain DNG, and you can only figure out the difference reverse engineering the file. Even for the same manufacturer and file type, they may change encoding details between models or firmware revisions. There are situations where they may decrease the bit depth of the final image if there’s not enough dynamic range, there are situations where…

How is DNG tooling these days? It's been ages since I checked, but it used have near zero support in (FLOSS) tools (including ffmpeg/imagemagick). You even had to use Adobe's Windows converter.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#14

Post by jagaerglad »

vadansky wrote: post #12
the_lucifer wrote: post #6

As someone who shoots on Fujifilm (XT-3), this was an intensely fascinating read. Thanks, now I have half a mind to sit down and re-implement this code, just to get a feel of how it works.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I have the same one and I can definitely recommend it. It depends what your camera experience is, but if you have had one that collected dust on a shelf in the past, I can guarantee you that this one is more fun to use and has a much lower risk of dust collection

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#15

Post by Analemma_ »

vadansky wrote: post #12
the_lucifer wrote: post #6

As someone who shoots on Fujifilm (XT-3), this was an intensely fascinating read. Thanks, now I have half a mind to sit down and re-implement this code, just to get a feel of how it works.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I recently upgraded from an XT-3 to an XT-5, but loved my XT-3 and would still recommend it as a good purchase if you can find a decent deal on one in good condition. Fuji’s AF is not the best in the business, so I wouldn’t recommend one if you’re planning on using it for e.g. sports photography, but apart from that the XT series has no real downsides. The physical dials for ISO+exposure+shutter speed are fantastic and Fuji’s color processing makes images that I just enjoy looking at, even if they’re not as strictly neutral and accurate as what you’d get from someone else.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#16

Post by yboulkaid »

I wonder if something about this explains why Fuji RAF files are the only RAW files that make Lightroom struggle.

I never heard the fans on my M1 mac until I started processing those RAF files, they're not even that large but something about them makes Lightroom struggle. And judging by posts on photography forums, I'm not the only one either

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#17

Post by ninjin »

Analemma_ wrote: post #15
vadansky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

I recently upgraded from an XT-3 to an XT-5, but loved my XT-3 and would still recommend it as a good purchase if you can find a decent deal on one in good condition. Fuji’s AF is not the best in the business, so I wouldn’t recommend one if you’re planning on using it for e.g. sports photography, but apart from that the XT series has no real downsides. The physical dials for ISO+exposure+shutter speed are fantastic a…

Fujifilm's whole X-mount series is wonderful and while I shoot "full-frame" M mount to remain interoperable between digital and film, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have a Fujifilm X-mount series if I only shot digital based on how much fun they have been when I have borrowed/tested them. Great "enthusiast level" cameras, great glass, solid build, everything has a button/dial, does not break the bank, and I actually know more than one professional photographer that shoots them and one of them even shooting sports!

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#18

Post by benoliver999 »

gappa wrote: post #8
matja wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those discussions I feel are fuelled by manufacturers like Sony saying [0] things like: Lossless compressed RAW: ... This is a popular format that occupies less space with minimal quality loss. "minimal" "loss"? That's not "no loss", so what exactly is it? [0] https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00257081

I actually asked Sony Support about that. Their reply: "We can confirm that with Lossless compressed RAW there is a minimal quality loss. To have no impact on image quality I suggest using Uncompressed RAW files." Lossless isn't what it used to be.

They read it lessloss I guess

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#19

Post by PetitPrince »

vadansky wrote: post #12
the_lucifer wrote: post #6

As someone who shoots on Fujifilm (XT-3), this was an intensely fascinating read. Thanks, now I have half a mind to sit down and re-implement this code, just to get a feel of how it works.

I've been thinking of buying that camera for a while, do you recommend it? Do you have anything to say that will finally push me over the edge to actually but it?

Another happy X-T3 owner here (I had in my hand a Nikon D40X, D300s, D810 before getting a X-T1 and then upgrading to X-T3 ; thanks dad).

Yes, this is a very good camera. I love UI of Fujifilm cameras; and by that I do not mean the menu system (which is... serviceable) but the physical dial for each of the main setting. Putting them in "A" for automatic just make sense compared to the usual PSAM modes.

Re: How does lossless compression in Fuji RAF files work? (2020)

#20

Post by tecleandor »

manoDev wrote: post #7
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #2

There are always these crazy discussions in photo forums where people are arguing that uncompressed RAW files are better than lossless compressed.

It’s because manufacturers keep inventing their own formats instead of using plain DNG, and you can only figure out the difference reverse engineering the file. Even for the same manufacturer and file type, they may change encoding details between models or firmware revisions. There are situations where they may decrease the bit depth of the final image if there’s not enough dynamic range, there are situations where…

DNG license might include some legal stuff that probably they don't want in their devices.

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/digital-negative.html#dng

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