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California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

gov.ca.gov

141–150 of 232 posts

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're actually making my point for me. 18 USC § 842 criminalizes distributing information with knowledge or intent that it will be used to commit a crime. That's criminal liability for completed conduct with a specific mens rea requirement. You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. SB 53 is different. It requires companies to implement filtering systems before anyone commits a crime or demonstrates crimi…

I hate that HN's guidelines ask me not to do this, but it's hard to answer point-by-point when there are so many. > You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. > If a company knowingly provides a service to facilitate imminent lawless action, that's already illegal. And if I tell an AI chatbot that I'm intending to commit a crime, and somehow it assists me in doing so, the company behind that service should…

You're conflating individual criminal liability with mandated prior restraint. If someone tells a chatbot they're going to commit a crime and the AI helps them, prosecute under existing law. But the company doesn't have knowledge of every individual interaction. That's not how the knowledge requirement works. You can't bootstrap individual criminal use into "the company should have known someone might use this for crimes, therefore they must filter everything."

The "companies want this" argument is irrelevant. Even if true, it doesn't make prior restraint constitutional. The government can't delegate its censorship powers to willing corporations. If companies are worried about liability, the answer is tort reform or clarifying safe harbor provisions, not building state-mandated filtering infrastructure.

On whether AI output is the company's speech: The First Amendment issue here isn't whose speech it is. It's that the government is compelling content-based restrictions. SB 53 doesn't just hold companies liable after harm occurs. It requires them to assess "dangerous capabilities" and implement "mitigations" before anyone gets hurt. That's prior restraint regardless of whether you call it the company's speech or not.

Your argument about LLMs being imperfect actually proves my point. You're saying mistakes will happen, so we need a framework. But the framework you're defending says the government gets to define what counts as dangerous and mandate filtering for it. That's exactly the infrastructure I'm warning about. Today it's "we can't perfectly control the models." Tomorrow it's "since we have to filter anyway, here are some other categories the state defines as harmful."

Given companies can't control their models perfectly due to the nature of AI technology, that's a product liability question, not a reason to establish government-mandated content filtering.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LLMs are tools, and the state can regulate tools More and more people get information from LLMs. You should be horrified at the idea of giving the state control over what information people can access through them, because going by historical precedent there's 100% chance that the state would use that censorship power against the interests of its citizens.

I'd rather be horrified that people are getting information from LLMs when LLMs have no way to know what it's outputting is true.

And the government is going to somehow decide what the truth is? Government is the last entity on earth I’d trust to arbitrate the truth.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#143
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no bubble. Your priors are not serving you well here.

If I had to shoot from the hip and guess: 30% of the current crop of AI startups are going to make it at best. Frankly that feels insanely generous but I’ll give them more credit than I think they deserve re: ideas and actual staying power. Many will crash in rapid succession. There isn’t enough room for all these same-y companies.

I thought a 10% success rate was the baseline for startups -- which would make your 30% estimate generous indeed.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are few greater risks over the next 15 years than that LLMs get entirely state-captured and forbidden from saying anything that goes against the government narrative.

This depends entirely on who you trust more, your government or tech oligarchs. Tech oligarchs are just as liable to influence how their LLMS operate for evil purposes, and they don't have to worry about pesky things like due process, elections, or the constitution getting in their way.

Government actively participated with social media oligarchs to push their nonsense Covid narrative and squash and discredit legitimate criticisms from reputable skeptics.

Both are evil, in combination so much more so. Neither should be trusted at all.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never thought censorship was a core concern of AI. It's just regurgitating from an LLM. I vehemently oppose censorship but who cares about AI? I just dont see the use-case.

Censorship of AI has a huge use-case: people get information from AI, and censorship allows the censors to control which information people can access through the AI.

Worse people including me easily delegate parts of our thinking to this new LLM thing.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. I have no clue where you got this idea, but libraries are perfectly within their right to have it on their shelves, just as publishers are allowed to publish it (present copyright conflicts aside). Repeated legal attacks against the book, at least in the US, were unsuccessful. You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” where some states have won the right to limit the contents of shelves. Publi…

> You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” For the purpose of this discussion, there is zero difference, unless you can articulate one that matters. Feel free to mentally prefix any mention of "library" with "school" if you like.

School libraries are state institutions under the control of various Boards of Education. As state institutions their rules and policies can be set by statute or Board policy. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. English teachers likewise must focus on teaching English at work, but this is not a restriction on their freedom of speech.

(That said, I am opposed to political restrictions on school library books. It is still not a free speech issue.)

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#147
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a weird example, because they were vindicated. The .com economy really did massively change the way business is done. They just (fatally, for most of the companies) overestimated how quickly the change would happen.

Having a bubble doesn’t mean the industry entirely implodes and goes away forever or otherwise doesn’t change things. It’s often a phase.

I think a bubble implies that the industry was overvalued compared to its long term fundamental value.

Having a dip and then a return to growth and exceeding the previous peak size isn't exactly a bubble. The internet and tech sector has grown to dominate the global economy. What happened was more of a cyclical correction, or a dip and rebound.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#148
post #103
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

28yrs for an appeals chain is a bit longer than most realities I'm aware of. More like a dozen years at the top end would be more in line with what I've seen out there. In general though, it's easier to just comply, even for the companies. It helps with PR and employee retention, etc. They may fudge the reports a bit, even on purpose, but all groups of people do this to some degree. The question is, when does fudging…

For sure, it's meant to go a bit too far I guess. I'll be more real. This is to allow companies to make entirely fictitious statements that they will state satisfies their interpretation. The lack of fines will suggest compliance. Proving the statement is fiction isn't ever going to happen anyway. But it's also such low fine, that will eat inflation for those 12 years.

In general, when you are appealing fines you have to have posted them as bond.

It's a low fine, but your particular objection is invalid.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and why the penalty for noncompliance is only $10,000. Think they were off by an order of magnitude for this fine. The PR for reporting anything bad on AI is probably worth more than the fine for non-compliance. 100k would at least start to dent the bumper.

Hint: It's low because the tech companies are already in agreement with the legislation. This is a huge win compared to a blanket regulatory push.

I thought OpenAI campaigned real hard against this one?

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#150

I found this website with the actual bill text along with annotations [0]. The section 22757.12. seems to contain the actual details of what they mean by "transparency". [0] https://sb53.info/

> “Artificial intelligence model” means an engineered or machine-based system that varies in its level of autonomy and that can, for explicit or implicit objectives, infer from the input it receives how to generate outputs that can influence physical or virtual environments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this definition covers basically all automation of any kind. Like, a dumb lawnmower responds to the…

It doesn't really "infer..how to" do anything in that example; rather it simply does those things based on how it was originally designed.

I'm not saying that it's a great definition, but I will correct you, since you asked.

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